Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Trump Caves
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Originally posted by firstfloor View Post...Trump’s white supremist base...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThey're not going to refuse to bargain...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYou, for the most part, are in hostile territory here.
Despite the apparent impression left that I am not self-reflective, I actually have taken the critiques here seriously. Some of them I have acknowledged and continue to work on - with more or less success (verbosity is not one of my more successful areas). Most of them I have brought to others - family, friends, even other online acquaintances from an array of backdrops. When they affirm what is being said abut me - I try to adjust. When they scratch their heads (as I do), I don't.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI know.
Oh, you wouldn't fool me in the least!
Feel free to enlighten me? It's not a classroom setting where you have the fate of the students in your little grade book?
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAw, come on...... you're seriously taking this personally?
After the last pile-on, I made a pledge to myself that I was going to focus on arguments and ignore personal comments. I've started the practice of simply deleting them from posts so the actual arguments are the focus of the responses. I debated putting a "the poster's comments have been edited for the purposes of focus" qualifier, given my dislike for people altering my own posts - but then decided all it would do is put focus back on the very thing I was looking to remove focus from (trailing preposition intended ).
I have to admit that posting here is personally challenging - so it's rather good for me. I get to practice patience (I give myself a C-), listening to positions "outside the bubble" (I give myself a C+), refraining from "reacting" (I give myself a D-, but getting better), and limiting verbosity (that one earns me an F...and I'm not sure it's improving as this post attests). Basically, a lot of areas where I need to improve.
But I chuckle a bit when people here accuse me of a lack of objectivity, poor judgment, jumping to conclusions without the facts, or having a partisan bias. There is no other place I interact with where the people are more partisan, more blind to their own poor judgment, or more willing to accept thin evidence if it means they get to hold on to their existing position. And there is no other place I visit that is more vitriolic. I suspect it is partly because of the portions of the site I visit (i.e., civics, apologetics, etc.). But I still have to wonder, even in those venues, how any part of what I see reflects the good of Christianity. The anger and hate is palpable.Last edited by carpedm9587; 01-27-2019, 10:28 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAnd that mans that my communication skills suddenly atrophy?
I'll get back to this later.
maybeThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThey're not going to refuse to bargain, only Trump is guilty of that. The dems are simply not giving in to Trumps (to be paid for by Mexico) wall which they have every right and power to do. Trump doesn't get to take hostage the U.S. government simply because as a wannabe tyrant he doesn't have the numbers on his side. He doesn't have the numbers, he loses. Elections have consequences, remember?Last edited by carpedm9587; 01-27-2019, 10:26 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAre you trying to compete with Tassy for Drama Queen of Tweb?
Please keep listening to Rachel; while she saves America.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostThe ever readable Tassman is a great contributor to Tweb; Tweb Royalty indeed, a bit like your goodself.
Please keep listening to Rachel; while she saves America.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Postwow
I'll get back to this later.
maybe
Sheesh...I need to write less and proof more.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostDon't worry - it was a badly proofed post. "Mans?" "Rapid?"
Sheesh...I need to write less and proof more.
(kidding)
(kinda)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt's that verbosity thing!
(kidding)
(kinda)
...and it's fine. When you're right, you're right.
But boy - when you're wrong... you are really wrong...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI think the emphasized part needs a bit more qualification. The Dems (i.e., Pelosi) are indeed refusing to budge on the wall part of the discussion. Personally, I think that is a mistake. I am not in favor of Trump's broad, undetailed, useless "700-900 miles of additional concrete border." I AM in favor of a data/fact-based deployment of barriers in strategic locations. An absolute "no walls" position is preposterous and is as much Pelosi and Schumer playing to their base as Trump's "big beautiful wall" is playing to his base (OK - that sentence could have been constructed better ). Beyond that, both sides have actually offered compromise positions. They simply have not arrived at a compromise (yet) that both sides can live with. Pelosi and Schumer are falling into the same trap Trump fell into: taking such a hard stance against a position that they have left themselves no way out without appearing to "cave."
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThe Democratic compromise is more funding for border security, which includes some monies for shoring up some existing wall, but not a penny for Trumps wall which was to be paid for by Mexico. It's called democracy, the democrats have the numbers, they have the majority of the american people on their side of the issue as well, so why on earth would they cede their position to Trump just so that he could pretend to have fulfilled a campaign promise. Btw, Trump had majorities in both the House and the Senate for 2 years and didn't get his wall, nor could he pass his repeal and replace Obamacare, another of his campaign promises which he said would be so easy to do. Conservative/Republicans must be getting so tired of winning!
Leaders should lead - not mindlessly follow the callings of their "base." If the Dems do the latter, they are no better or worse than Trump (in that regard).The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSo - my response is "because it's the right thing to do." Where there is a significant incidence of border crossing, a barrier can be an effective first-line of defense.
It does not eliminate the entire problem - and it needs to be done based on hard data.
It should be done for valid reasons - and not trumped up ones (very old pun intended). It also eliminates ANY valid claim by those on the right that the Dems are purely obstructionists out to defeat anything Trump wants simply because Trump wants it.
Leaders should lead - not mindlessly follow the callings of their "base." If the Dems do the latter, they are no better or worse than Trump (in that regard).
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Originally posted by JimL View PostAccording to who?
Originally posted by JimL View PostPeople disagree with that assessment and that other security measures wouldn't do a better job at a lesser cost.
Originally posted by JimL View PostThat is the Dems position.
Originally posted by JimL View PostThey are also providing monies for shoring up existing walls, but what they aren't willing to fund are new walls wherever Trump decides he want to build them.
Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, Trump and the republicans should have provided hard data in support of their wall over other security measures, but they haven't, and the dems disagree with a border length wall.
Don't get me wrong - I still think 700-900 miles without any data to substantiate the need is ridiculous. But "border-length" is simply not true.
Originally posted by JimL View PostThat's if they have valid reasons, which they don't.
Originally posted by JimL View PostI agree, but just because the majority of people agree with the dems, doesn't mean that they are mindlessly following them.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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