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Believing or Not Believing Because of Evidence

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  • Believing or Not Believing Because of Evidence

    I have heard that if you believe that the Bible is the word of God because of some evidence outside of the Bible, then you don't believe that the Bible is your final authority. Is this true? What do you think about this?

    Suppose someone asks you, "If you were shown strong evidence that Christianity is not true, would you be willing to give up your belief in Jesus?" I have heard some people say that if you answer "Yes" to that question, then you don't believe that the Bible is your final authority. What do you think about this?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hornet View Post
    I have heard that if you believe that the Bible is the word of God because of some evidence outside of the Bible...
    From whom have you heard this?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      From whom have you heard this?

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hornet View Post
        Suppose someone asks you, "If you were shown strong evidence that Christianity is not true, would you be willing to give up your belief in Jesus?" I have heard some people say that if you answer "Yes" to that question, then you don't believe that the Bible is your final authority. What do you think about this?
        Well, I believe the Bible is authoritative because of evidence:

        ‘Who is like Me? Let him proclaim and declare it;
        Yes, let him recount it to Me in order,
        From the time that I established the ancient nation.
        And let them declare to them the things that are coming
        And the events that are going to take place.
        ‘Do not tremble and do not be afraid;
        Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it?
        And you are My witnesses.
        Is there any God besides Me,
        Or is there any other Rock?
        I know of none.’ (Isaiah 44:7-8)

        God provides evidence in fulfilled prophecy to believe his word, we need not take the Bible as a final authority blindly. Solid faith is based on all the evidence:

        "To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs..." (Acts 1:3)

        Blessings,
        Lee
        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

        Comment


        • #5
          The Bible is not our final authority. God is our final authority. So I have a real problem with the claim posed with the OP in the first place.

          But, when Jesus let Thomas touch his hand, he accepted his belief even upon demanding evidence.
          Last edited by KingsGambit; 01-26-2019, 06:50 PM.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Hornet View Post
            I have heard that if you believe that the Bible is the word of God because of some evidence outside of the Bible, then you don't believe that the Bible is your final authority. Is this true? What do you think about this?
            I don't understand this line. I believe in the Bible because the evidence recorded in it is in accordance with evidence outside of it, to the best of my knowledge to research it. The Bible is the word of God, but that doesn't mean we should blindly assume our understanding of it is infallible. That's why I read different arguments, weigh their merits, and try to understand objections/counter-arguments made about various passages. The Bible alone doesn't grant me, at least, perfect understanding of the context in which it was written.

            If strong, definitive evidence were offered that major tenants of Christianity were incorrect, then I would consider it. But frankly, if that were going to happen, it would have by now. I'm not worried.

            Comment


            • #7
              This sounds like the sort of argument you would see from some hardcore presuppositionalist who is more interested in discussing how people specifically are supposed to come to faith... than in actually helping bring people to faith.

              There are many ways the Holy Spirit works through and I don't want to be in the business of dismissing any of them.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                This sounds like the sort of argument you would see from some hardcore presuppositionalist who is more interested in discussing how people specifically are supposed to come to faith... than in actually helping bring people to faith.

                There are many ways the Holy Spirit works through and I don't want to be in the business of dismissing any of them.
                Well said.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  From whom have you heard this?
                  I heard it from a Christian apologist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    This sounds like the sort of argument you would see from some hardcore presuppositionalist who is more interested in discussing how people specifically are supposed to come to faith... than in actually helping bring people to faith.

                    There are many ways the Holy Spirit works through and I don't want to be in the business of dismissing any of them.
                    You are correct. It is from a presuppositionalist. The presuppositionalist that I heard would say that if something other than God or the Bible gives proof that the Bible is the word, then that proof is your final authority. In other words, he would say that if X proves that the Bible is the word of God, then X is your final authority.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                      Well, I believe the Bible is authoritative because of evidence:

                      ‘Who is like Me? Let him proclaim and declare it;
                      Yes, let him recount it to Me in order,
                      From the time that I established the ancient nation.
                      And let them declare to them the things that are coming
                      And the events that are going to take place.
                      ‘Do not tremble and do not be afraid;
                      Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it?
                      And you are My witnesses.
                      Is there any God besides Me,
                      Or is there any other Rock?
                      I know of none.’ (Isaiah 44:7-8)

                      God provides evidence in fulfilled prophecy to believe his word, we need not take the Bible as a final authority blindly. Solid faith is based on all the evidence:

                      "To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs..." (Acts 1:3)

                      Blessings,
                      Lee
                      The fulfilled prophecy in the Bible would be considered evidence that the Bible is the word of God. Since it is part of the Bible, it is not something outside of Scripture that validates Scripture. Fulfilled prophecy in the Bible is an example of the Bible validating its own truth claims.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        The Bible is not our final authority. God is our final authority. So I have a real problem with the claim posed with the OP in the first place.

                        But, when Jesus let Thomas touch his hand, he accepted his belief even upon demanding evidence.
                        I agree with all this. The Bible is a means to believing, not the ultimate basis of belief. The Bible is not, and cannot be, ultimate.
                        It does not matter that I cannot prove that God is real and trustworthy. To be able to prove that, would be be a weakness, not a strength; a God who could be proved to exist, would not be God at all, but a mere god.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Christianity is based on evidence, not blind faith. The reason we believe is because of the evidence shown that it is true.

                          So that means if clear and strong evidence shows that it is not true, we would need to stop believing.

                          But I am like Leac, I think it would need to be very strong evidence to convince me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hornet View Post
                            You are correct. It is from a presuppositionalist. The presuppositionalist that I heard would say that if something other than God or the Bible gives proof that the Bible is the word, then that proof is your final authority. In other words, he would say that if X proves that the Bible is the word of God, then X is your final authority.
                            But that is correct isn't it? If Scripture is inspired then it has to be the final authority. Other proofs and evidences may play in, but something has to have the last word.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              But I am like Leac, I think it would need to be very strong evidence to convince me.
                              Yet we have to remember there are dark intelligent forces that may be able to make black look white. To deceive the very elect, if that is possible.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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