Believing or Not Believing Because of Evidence

[Rushing Jaws]

No, absolutely not. Belief in God based on evidence is rationalism. God is to be believed in regardless of evidence, despite all evidence to the contrary. Because none of it is worth anything. If evidence were decisive, I would desert Christ and God in a heartbeat. I agree with Luther: reason is a whore: it can be used equally for or against belief in God.

[Sparko]

No, absolutely not. Belief in God based on evidence is rationalism. God is to be believed in regardless of evidence, despite all evidence to the contrary. Because none of it is worth anything. If evidence were decisive, I would desert Christ and God in a heartbeat. I agree with Luther: reason is a whore: it can be used equally for or against belief in God.

That doesn't make sense.

Why do you believe in God then?

[KingsGambit]

But that is correct isn't it? If Scripture is inspired then it has to be the final authority. Other proofs and evidences may play in, but something has to have the last word.

What he seems to be saying is that if you allow these outside forms of evidence to assist you in believing the Bible, you don't really believe the Bible.

[seer]

That doesn't make sense.

Why do you believe in God then?

Yes it does. If God causes the man to believe...

[seer]

What he seems to be saying is that if you allow these outside forms of evidence to assist you in believing the Bible, you don't really believe the Bible.

I don't think that using evidence to support scripture is necessarily bad, but Scripture has to be the last word, especially if the "evidence" contradicts the Bible. Remember the Devil is the god of this world, and the whole world lies in wickedness. Deception, even in scientific matters, is not out of the question.

[Sparko]

Yes it does. If God causes the man to believe...

If God causes us to believe then we have no choice in the matter and God is ultimately responsible for everyone who doesn't believe and the only reason they end up in Hell is because God chose to not make them believe.

Pure Calvinism. It makes God into the bad guy.

[Cow Poke]

When Paul was preaching on Mars Hill, he referenced the UNKNOWN GOD as part of his appeal for their consideration - that was certainly "outside the Bible" (until Luke wrote about it, of course).

The Bible, apart from the Holy Spirit, is pretty much 'just a book' to lost people, just like the preaching of the Gospel is foolishness. God didn't give us the Bible in a vacuum.

[seer]

If God causes us to believe then we have no choice in the matter and God is ultimately responsible for everyone who doesn't believe and the only reason they end up in Hell is because God chose to not make them believe.

Pure Calvinism. It makes God into the bad guy.

Or that God is not obligated to save any rebel, but graciously decides to save some. You can look at it either way.

[Sparko]

Or that God is not obligated to save any rebel, but graciously decides to save some. You can look at it either way.

If God could save everyone by just making them believe and he is all good, then wouldn't he?

[Cow Poke]

If God could save everyone by just making them believe and he is all good, then wouldn't he?

And why live a Christian life if we're all gonna slide on into home regardless of the game we play?

[seer]

If God could save everyone by just making them believe and he is all good, then wouldn't he?

God is not limited to one attribute. You could say, that He is also "all just." So He displays His justice in some and his goodness and mercy in others.

[seer]

And why live a Christian life if we're all gonna slide on into home regardless of the game we play?

You live the Christian life because you were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and have deep gratitude towards God. You are not suggesting that we are saved by works?

[Sparko]

God is not limited to one attribute. You could say, that He is also "all just." So He displays His justice in some and his goodness and mercy in others.

How just would it be to just choose certain people to save by making them believe in him and not others? Isn't that like using a love potion on someone to make them love you?

[One Bad Pig]

You live the Christian life because you were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and have deep gratitude towards God. You are not suggesting that we are saved by works?

I think he's suggesting "not universalism".

[Cow Poke]

You live the Christian life because you were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and have deep gratitude towards God. You are not suggesting that we are saved by works?

I was mocking universalism - which occasionally comes up here. Though, not near as frequently since Mick is no longer with us.