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Believing or Not Believing Because of Evidence

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  • #16
    No, absolutely not. Belief in God based on evidence is rationalism. God is to be believed in regardless of evidence, despite all evidence to the contrary. Because none of it is worth anything. If evidence were decisive, I would desert Christ and God in a heartbeat. I agree with Luther: reason is a whore: it can be used equally for or against belief in God.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
      No, absolutely not. Belief in God based on evidence is rationalism. God is to be believed in regardless of evidence, despite all evidence to the contrary. Because none of it is worth anything. If evidence were decisive, I would desert Christ and God in a heartbeat. I agree with Luther: reason is a whore: it can be used equally for or against belief in God.
      That doesn't make sense.

      Why do you believe in God then?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        But that is correct isn't it? If Scripture is inspired then it has to be the final authority. Other proofs and evidences may play in, but something has to have the last word.
        What he seems to be saying is that if you allow these outside forms of evidence to assist you in believing the Bible, you don't really believe the Bible.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          That doesn't make sense.

          Why do you believe in God then?
          Yes it does. If God causes the man to believe...
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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          • #20
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            What he seems to be saying is that if you allow these outside forms of evidence to assist you in believing the Bible, you don't really believe the Bible.
            I don't think that using evidence to support scripture is necessarily bad, but Scripture has to be the last word, especially if the "evidence" contradicts the Bible. Remember the Devil is the god of this world, and the whole world lies in wickedness. Deception, even in scientific matters, is not out of the question.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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            • #21
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Yes it does. If God causes the man to believe...
              If God causes us to believe then we have no choice in the matter and God is ultimately responsible for everyone who doesn't believe and the only reason they end up in Hell is because God chose to not make them believe.

              Pure Calvinism. It makes God into the bad guy.

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              • #22
                When Paul was preaching on Mars Hill, he referenced the UNKNOWN GOD as part of his appeal for their consideration - that was certainly "outside the Bible" (until Luke wrote about it, of course).

                The Bible, apart from the Holy Spirit, is pretty much 'just a book' to lost people, just like the preaching of the Gospel is foolishness. God didn't give us the Bible in a vacuum.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  If God causes us to believe then we have no choice in the matter and God is ultimately responsible for everyone who doesn't believe and the only reason they end up in Hell is because God chose to not make them believe.

                  Pure Calvinism. It makes God into the bad guy.
                  Or that God is not obligated to save any rebel, but graciously decides to save some. You can look at it either way.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Or that God is not obligated to save any rebel, but graciously decides to save some. You can look at it either way.
                    If God could save everyone by just making them believe and he is all good, then wouldn't he?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      If God could save everyone by just making them believe and he is all good, then wouldn't he?
                      And why live a Christian life if we're all gonna slide on into home regardless of the game we play?
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        If God could save everyone by just making them believe and he is all good, then wouldn't he?
                        God is not limited to one attribute. You could say, that He is also "all just." So He displays His justice in some and his goodness and mercy in others.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          And why live a Christian life if we're all gonna slide on into home regardless of the game we play?
                          You live the Christian life because you were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and have deep gratitude towards God. You are not suggesting that we are saved by works?
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            God is not limited to one attribute. You could say, that He is also "all just." So He displays His justice in some and his goodness and mercy in others.
                            How just would it be to just choose certain people to save by making them believe in him and not others? Isn't that like using a love potion on someone to make them love you?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              You live the Christian life because you were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and have deep gratitude towards God. You are not suggesting that we are saved by works?
                              I think he's suggesting "not universalism".
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                You live the Christian life because you were regenerated by the Holy Spirit and have deep gratitude towards God. You are not suggesting that we are saved by works?
                                I was mocking universalism - which occasionally comes up here. Though, not near as frequently since Mick is no longer with us.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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