Announcement

Collapse

Christianity 201 Guidelines

orthodox Christians only.

Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.

The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Believing or Not Believing Because of Evidence

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    How just would it be to just choose certain people to save by making them believe in him and not others? Isn't that like using a love potion on someone to make them love you?
    I'm not sure, perhaps we would naturally love God if we were not blinded by the sin of unbelief. Perhaps God just removes the blinders and we naturally recognize and leap towards our Creator. Now I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with Calvinists, but in my 29 years as a Christian I often wondered why one person can look at Christian evidences and Scripture and find them completely compelling, while another person sees the exact same thing and finds no value or truth in them. I can't say that my own reasoning or goodness made the difference.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      I'm not sure, perhaps we would naturally love God if we were not blinded by the sin of unbelief. Perhaps God just removes the blinders and we naturally recognize and leap towards our Creator. Now I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with Calvinists, but in my 29 years as a Christian I often wondered why one person can look at Christian evidences and Scripture and find them completely compelling, while another person sees the exact same thing and finds no value or truth in them. I can't say that my own reasoning or goodness made the difference.
      I think because some people don't want to believe. Even if they found out God was real, they would run away from him instead of towards him. Like the bible says about the demons. Jame 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        I think because some people don't want to believe. Even if they found out God was real, they would run away from him instead of towards him. Like the bible says about the demons. Jame 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.
        Paul Little talks about a speech he gave where, afterwards, a student came to him and said, "you have successfully answered every question I've had that keeps me from becoming a Christian". Little asked, "then, you're ready to receive Christ as Savior?" After hearing the young man say no, Little said "but I thought you said I successfully answered your objections". The young man replied, "well, yeah, but becoming a Christian would mess up the way I live".
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          I think because some people don't want to believe. Even if they found out God was real, they would run away from him instead of towards him. Like the bible says about the demons. Jame 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.
          But why? Why do we run to God, and they run away? Are they more stupid or evil than I was?
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            But why? Why do we run to God, and they run away? Are they more stupid or evil than I was?
            Yes.
            "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

            "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
              Yes.
              I'm not willing to say that, but it is refreshing to be noted for my brilliance!
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                But why? Why do we run to God, and they run away? Are they more stupid or evil than I was?
                See Cow Pokes anecdote. I think it is a matter of selfishness. And timing. I didn't become a Christian till I was 40 years old. I foundered between being an agnostic, an atheist to sort of believing in God but not really caring (because I figured I was a good guy and God would see that and let me into heaven if he was real) - it just didn't matter to me for the longest time. Then it did. I watched God in action and couldn't ignore him any more. So I guess in a way you are right, he "made" me believe in him, but I did have to be ready and willing to see what he wanted to show me.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  See Cow Pokes anecdote. I think it is a matter of selfishness. And timing. I didn't become a Christian till I was 40 years old. I foundered between being an agnostic, an atheist to sort of believing in God but not really caring (because I figured I was a good guy and God would see that and let me into heaven if he was real) - it just didn't matter to me for the longest time. Then it did. I watched God in action and couldn't ignore him any more. So I guess in a way you are right, he "made" me believe in him, but I did have to be ready and willing to see what he wanted to show me.
                  Right, I was 37 years old, I had heard it all in the past, then the stars all lined up. The circumstances all came together - but what made or controlled those circumstances? That is why I'm a committed Calminian, because it is still a mystery to me.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Right, I was 37 years old, I had heard it all in the past, then the stars all lined up. The circumstances all came together - but what made or controlled those circumstances? That is why I'm a committed Calminian, because it is still a mystery to me.
                    In my case it was my alcoholic dad having a stroke, almost dying with the doctors giving up, my mom's church elders praying over him, him recovering and becoming a Christian and stopped drinking. I couldn't ignore it. If God could do that to and for my dad, he had to be real. So I started going to church and learned the rest. That just being a "good person" wasn't going to save me.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      In my case it was my alcoholic dad having a stroke, almost dying with the doctors giving up, my mom's church elders praying over him, him recovering and becoming a Christian and stopped drinking. I couldn't ignore it. If God could do that to and for my dad, he had to be real. So I started going to church and learned the rest. That just being a "good person" wasn't going to save me.
                      But another man in the same position could ignore it and pawn it all off as coincidence.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        But another man in the same position could ignore it and pawn it all off as coincidence.
                        Which is where the work of the Holy Spirit comes into play.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Which is where the work of the Holy Spirit comes into play.
                          So the question is, why is the Holy Spirit working in one man and not the other?
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            So the question is, why is the Holy Spirit working in one man and not the other?
                            How do you know the Holy Spirit is working in one man and not the other? It may well be that one person is more sensitive to the work of the Holy Spirit, or it may be that a person is being prayed for more. Or it may be that God decides to intervene in a more direct way in somebody's life like he did Saul.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              How do you know the Holy Spirit is working in one man and not the other? It may well be that one person is more sensitive to the work of the Holy Spirit...
                              What makes that man more sensitive?

                              or it may be that a person is being prayed for more.
                              That is possible. Just off the top of my head, I can't remember anyone praying for someone's salvation in the NT. Though I do all the time.


                              Or it may be that God decides to intervene in a more direct way in somebody's life like he did Saul.
                              If God's wants all men to be saved wouldn't He intervene in a more direct way in all lives to ensure their salvation?
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                What makes that man more sensitive?
                                Could be any number of things - his upbringing, a recent loss of a loved one to death, events in his life... as opposed to somebody who became "angry at God" due to something 'bad' happening in his life...

                                That is possible. Just off the top of my head, I can't remember anyone praying for someone's salvation in the NT. Though I do all the time.
                                Interesting -- we know that the First Church was praying intently for the 'salvation' of Peter from jail, but lemme think on this one a bit --- good discussion question.

                                If God's wants all men to be saved wouldn't He intervene in a more direct way in all lives to ensure their salvation?
                                Like Dr J I Packer told me years ago at Baylor University: "Sometimes God does things, and we don't know why He does things, we just know that He does things". It was the most eloquent "I don't know" I have ever encountered.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Thoughtful Monk, 03-15-2024, 06:19 PM
                                35 responses
                                166 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by KingsGambit, 03-15-2024, 02:12 PM
                                4 responses
                                49 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Thoughtful Monk  
                                Started by Chaotic Void, 03-08-2024, 07:36 AM
                                10 responses
                                119 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post mikewhitney  
                                Started by Cow Poke, 02-29-2024, 07:55 AM
                                14 responses
                                71 views
                                3 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by Cow Poke, 02-28-2024, 11:56 AM
                                13 responses
                                59 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Working...
                                X