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The Corrosion of Conservatism

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  • The Corrosion of Conservatism

    I have been seeing/hearing more and more of this kind of sentiment from many former Republicans, some of whom no longer even want to use the term "conservative." Most associate their "awakening" with the rise of Donald Trump and the resulting changes in the Republican party.

    I am curious to know if any of the people here, who self-identify as conservative, have had any similar reactions since 2015? Even in part?

    The podcast is worth a listen, IMO. It speaks to those on the right who had a similar reaction to Trump that many on the left had.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    I used to be a far right conservative. I experienced a generalized and slowapostasy away from conservative politics but the nail in the coffin for me was the evangelical sellout to Romney.
    "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
    Hear my cry, hear my shout,
    Save me, save me"

    Comment


    • #3
      Are people under the impression that Donald Trump defines conservativism or that he is a quintessential conservative politician? Because that has never been my impression.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by guacamole View Post
        I used to be a far right conservative. I experienced a generalized and slowapostasy away from conservative politics but the nail in the coffin for me was the evangelical sellout to Romney.
        To Romney? I have to admit that surprises me. So I presume Trump is the 12" lag on the coffin?
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Are people under the impression that Donald Trump defines conservativism or that he is a quintessential conservative politician? Because that has never been my impression.
          I'm sure some do. But Max's point (and others as well) is not specifically about Trump being or not being conservative, but rather the almost wholesale embrace of Trump by conservatives. He has a massive approval rating by Republicans and conservatives in general, and there is very little calling out of his more immoral/amoral proclivities. And there is a lot of ignoring of some pretty un-conservative actions (e.g., undermining the intelligence community, undermining the justice system, etc.).
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            To Romney? I have to admit that surprises me. So I presume Trump is the 12" lag on the coffin?
            More like the shot-gun blast to the face of the rotting corpse of the republican party.
            "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
            Hear my cry, hear my shout,
            Save me, save me"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by guacamole View Post
              More like the shot-gun blast to the face of the rotting corpse of the republican party.
              OK... that made me snort coffee up my nose...


              But I do agree that the Grand Old Party has fallen a long, long way. Lincoln and Roosevelt would probably not be impressed.
              Last edited by carpedm9587; 01-31-2019, 04:39 PM.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                I'm sure some do. But Max's point (and others as well) is not specifically about Trump being or not being conservative, but rather the almost wholesale embrace of Trump by conservatives. He has a massive approval rating by Republicans and conservatives in general, and there is very little calling out of his more immoral/amoral proclivities. And there is a lot of ignoring of some pretty un-conservative actions (e.g., undermining the intelligence community, undermining the justice system, etc.).
                I don't care about any of his personal "moral" issues that occurred before his Presidency.

                I have a lot of libertarian leanings, so I am more skeptical of the "intelligence" community, justice system, etc. than many "conservatives" seem to be.

                And in all cases, the general insanity he provokes from both the left and the never-Trumpers on the "right" strengthens his appeal to me.
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Federalist.

                Nationalist Christian.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                  I don't care about any of his personal "moral" issues that occurred before his Presidency.
                  You don't think they speak to the kind of person he is? What about the things he did during the campaign? And what about the fact that he continues to lie about all of them during his presidency? These things don't bother you at all?

                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                  I have a lot of libertarian leanings, so I am more skeptical of the "intelligence" community, justice system, etc. than many "conservatives" seem to be.
                  Fair enough.

                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                  And in all cases, the general insanity he provokes from both the left and the never-Trumpers on the "right" strengthens his appeal to me.
                  That's an interesting metric to use to assess a president.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    I have been seeing/hearing more and more of this kind of sentiment from many former Republicans, some of whom no longer even want to use the term "conservative." Most associate their "awakening" with the rise of Donald Trump and the resulting changes in the Republican party.

                    I am curious to know if any of the people here, who self-identify as conservative, have had any similar reactions since 2015? Even in part?

                    The podcast is worth a listen, IMO. It speaks to those on the right who had a similar reaction to Trump that many on the left had.
                    Was there anything that you think was noteworthy in the stuff you posted?

                    How come you are so intent on finding people that say bad stuff about the president?

                    How come the material you find makes Trump seem like a saint compared to previous presidents?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      I'm sure some do. But Max's point (and others as well) is not specifically about Trump being or not being conservative, but rather the almost wholesale embrace of Trump by conservatives. He has a massive approval rating by Republicans and conservatives in general, and there is very little calling out of his more immoral/amoral proclivities. And there is a lot of ignoring of some pretty un-conservative actions (e.g., undermining the intelligence community, undermining the justice system, etc.).
                      Oh, I get it now, this is just another "Trump supporters aren't Real ChristiansTM" rant.

                      Well, carry on.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Oh, I get it now, this is just another "Trump supporters aren't Real ChristiansTM" rant.

                        Well, carry on.
                        Exactly where did I say the word "Christian?"

                        And when did a question become a rant?
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My reaction to this so-called conservative CFR member's change of view on 'conservatism' is that he already is way to political in a negative way. The CFR seems to be a manipulative organization with destructive tendencies. So I would think his real complaint is that Trump is interfering with the CFR's plans -- therefore he is not 'conservative.'

                          If there was something more than hearsay evidence, there might have been basis to build an argument against Trump. I don't know if Trump will truly bring good results to America. But I do recognize that people in America have been made overly critical of each other for umpteen years. We have to unify ... put aside many ways that we have been overly sensitized to things that other people say and do. This unity must be achieved despite what the newspapers and politicians do in their effort to divide Americans -- to make every group an enemy of the other.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I can hardly bear to skim through lies or extravagant ignorance such as this "'Wait a second, the Republican coalition is not what I thought it was, there are not people who are necessarily thrilling to the ideas that are formulated by policy analysts like me.' A lot of them were simply looking for a party that would bash minorities, that would bash immigrants."

                            To claim that this is anything representative of 'conservatives' seems like a waste of breath. The Democrats spout this lie in a fashion seeking to divide the nation. Most of the Republicans in the House and Senate sit there quietly while letting the nation fester in such lies. I can understand that there are people who have suffered racism from Democrats and, even, Republicans. I hope that such people can be healed. But we don't need the media reopening and poring salt on the wounds.

                            Please, have a heart for the nation and its people.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                              My reaction to this so-called conservative CFR member's change of view on 'conservatism' is that he already is way to political in a negative way. The CFR seems to be a manipulative organization with destructive tendencies. So I would think his real complaint is that Trump is interfering with the CFR's plans -- therefore he is not 'conservative.'

                              If there was something more than hearsay evidence, there might have been basis to build an argument against Trump. I don't know if Trump will truly bring good results to America. But I do recognize that people in America have been made overly critical of each other for umpteen years. We have to unify ... put aside many ways that we have been overly sensitized to things that other people say and do. This unity must be achieved despite what the newspapers and politicians do in their effort to divide Americans -- to make every group an enemy of the other.
                              It might help if we actually had a president who unified.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment

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