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Thread: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ed Markey to unveil 'Green New Deal' bill

  1. #391
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    That is essentially socialism starlight.

    It's not all necessarily socialistic. But

    Source: CNN

    "guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States"

    © Copyright Original Source



    If this isn't socialism, it's as close to it as you can get w/o being socialism.
    For one, your ideas of what makes something "socialism" are really, really messed up. Not only is that not socialism, it isn't remotely close to being socialism.

    Secondly, that was a bit of a throwaway line in the document. 99% of the Resolution is about climate change and carbon emissions. While I am sure the democrats would like to do some other good stuff too, like having America stop being close to the only country in the world that doesn't guarantee paid maternity leave, etc. Things like that will end up being split out as separate issues and discussed and passed (or not) quite independently of climate change issues.

    And honestly, I don't see how you could actually implement that without it being or becoming socialism. You can't force people to get hired by independent companies, so you have to provide jobs for these people. But where are you going to get the money to fund the endeavors that provide those jobs?
    You know that America and most other countries have social security or similar for people who don't have jobs right? So the money is already being found and used to pay people who don't have jobs. A Job Guarantee policy would effectively just mean that instead of just giving them the social security check, those people would be contributing productive labor in exchange for that check. If that productive labor were organised in such a way to create revenue like it would in an ordinary company, that would be net positive for the governments finances as compared to the existing policy of just giving those same people a check without them doing the work.

    Source: CNN

    Public ownership
    "providing and leveraging, in a way that ensures that the public receives appropriate ownership stakes and returns on investment, adequate capital (including through community grants, public banks, and other public financing), technical expertise, supporting policies, and other forms of assistance to communities, organizations, Federal, State, and local government agencies, and businesses working on the Green New Deal mobilization"

    © Copyright Original Source



    'not socialism' ?!?!
    Indeed that is not socialism.

    I don't really know what to say... you seem like someone who's pointing to blue things and black things and saying "their color is red"... they just aren't and your statement leaves me scratching my head. I'm a democratic socialist. I've read books about Marx and books about socialism through the centuries. I enjoy reading and learning about different kinds of socialism and different strands of political thought. My favorite daily podcast is a socialist one whose hosts span the socialist spectrum. But the things you're talking about here just aren't socialism.

  2. #392
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    It doesn't do any of that.

    I know conservatives on this site find reading comprehension really difficult, but the Resolution text is mostly bullet points and only a dozen pages or so, so even you should be able to read it.
    They say the same thing they said in the FAQ, but worded it more vaguely.

    Such as in the FAQ:
    Economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work

    Resolution:
    (B) to create millions of good, high-wage jobs and ensure prosperity and economic security for all people of the United States;

    They just took out the phrase 'unable or unwilling to work.' But if we are talking about economic security for ALL people of the USA, it would entail for those unwilling to work, ipso facto.

    Same for the rest of the document.

  3. #393
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It's interesting that they're not trying the Obamacare trick of ramming it though before anybody has a chance to read it.
    Not really. Current party leadership is against it - and even if Pelosi, et al. supported it, they could only get it through one chamber of Congress, so there's no point.
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  4. #394
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post

    You know that America and most other countries have social security or similar for people who don't have jobs right? So the money is already being found and used to pay people who don't have jobs.
    That's now how "social security" works Star. It is funded by workers having money taken out of their paycheck. It is not government money being distributed, it is a retirement fund paid for by workers. You are talking about welfare. Or maybe unemployment insurance but that is paid for by the employers.

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