Originally posted by Bill the Cat
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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ed Markey to unveil 'Green New Deal' bill
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“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostNo.
The Green New Deal is currently a proposed Resolution. A Resolution is different to a Bill - passing it doesn't make it a law, and it doesn't need Senate or Presidential sign-off. A Resolution is a formal declaration, aka a public memo from the House to itself. It has been submitted to the House now, so it will go through a debate and discussion and amendment period, and then the House will (probably) vote on the final version of it. If it passes, it will effectively be a formal declaration by Democrats (assuming Republicans don't vote for it) of what their policy is, and at that point the House Climate Change Committee will be handed the passed text of the Resolution, and instructed to begin drafting legislation and interviewing experts, with the goal of producing one or more Bills that implement the goals of the Resolution which can then be submitted back to the House for debate, amending, and voting, and if and when those pass the House, Senate, and get Presidential sign-off they will become law.
Hence, as I said...
They have a link stating "More on this bill"
Another reference to "Related Bills"
And a notation stating that "There is one version of the bill" referring to it.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostInteresting then that Congress.Gov (the very source you linked to) repeatedly refers to this resolution as a bill.
They have a link stating "More on this bill"
Another reference to "Related Bills"
And a notation stating that "There is one version of the bill" referring to it.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI think you awkwardly blur a complex reality here. The government has huge scope for controlling the speed at which this happens.
For example, the government here is busily installing charging stations across my country.
In the US, the state of California has long had huge influence over the car manufacturing industry due to setting emissions standards. Its choices have affected what models car manufacturers release and what technologies they pursued.
Likewise, government policy is hugely influential in affecting the relative cost of electricity and gas. A choice to install more power stations can lower electricity prices. A choice to subsidize gas less can raise gas prices. This in turn affects the decision of individuals as to whether they purchase an electric car, a hybrid, or a gas car.
So I think your statement that it will happen "naturally" is quite wrong. Governments were instrumental in pouring massive amounts of money into R&D for green technologies. They set emissions standards which affect the rate at which the automotive industry chooses to transition vehicle production to greener vehicles. They control the relative price of gas and electricity. They build (or don't) charging stations for electric vehicles. So none of this happened "naturally" - it has been planned, controlled, and shepherded by governments from start to finish, and they have massive, massive control over the rate at which the transition continues to occur.
I agree that it sounds like a great idea in theory. The simple problem is that it just doesn't generate very much power and isn't cost-effective compared to other methods.
Indeed, I think 50 years from now, fusion could become a major power source. Unfortunately that isn't fast enough to deal with current climate issues. I could write you a rant on how governments have been underfunding fusion research for decades now, and how it is possible we could have invented viable fusion power by now if they had, but that is beside the point. Governments should be putting more money into fusion R&D, but they haven't, and at this stage where we need rapid action to reduce greenhouse emissions, transitioning to fusion is simply not an option.
You say this as if we can't control the rate at which technology improves. Of course we can. Tech R&D rates have always been massively controlled by government funding choices, as most R&D is directly government funded and what R&D occurs in private industry is usually government subsidized.
Remember when President Kennedy decided to put a man on the moon, and the government poured in massive money to fund that R&D, and the government was able to achieve his goal within 7 years?
Prizes after the fact seem a bit irrelevant. But grants are already given. I agree they should give more.
How does spending money on innovation, which creates jobs and boosts the economy, hurt people or the economy? You seem to have it backward.
Forcing technology upon people that isn't ready hurts them because you are forcing them to spend more money to replace things that work perfectly fine as is. If you force everyone to upgrade their buildings and homes, do you think that is free? If you outlaw combustion engines and force everyone to buy electric cars, do you suppose that is free? Do you suppose destroying entire industries like the airline industry won't have any economic impact? Or forcing automobile makers to retool every one of their factories to produce electric cars?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYour opinion is noted.
Forcing technology upon people that isn't ready hurts them because you are forcing them to spend more money to replace things that work perfectly fine as is. If you force everyone to upgrade their buildings and homes, do you think that is free? If you outlaw combustion engines and force everyone to buy electric cars, do you suppose that is free? Do you suppose destroying entire industries like the airline industry won't have any economic impact? Or forcing automobile makers to retool every one of their factories to produce electric cars?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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According to this article, it's a non binding resolution...yet the Senate may move to vote on it...
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/12/69406...to-senate-voteWatch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by seer View PostThis is all about destroying the largest, most powerful economy in human history. Period...
IOW, It is too close to socialism, and socialism can't work, because it denies a fundamental element of human nature. Most of us are lazy. There are just too many people that won't work unless they have to to survive. Which means those that do work are unjustly penalized supporting the majority that won't. Capitalism mostly works (in spite of it's flaws) because a person can reap the rewards of his labor but is not funded if he won't work. Survival forces people to work (negative reinforcement), and being rewarded for the effort gives positive reinforcement. The best way to get people to do what they need to do is a combination of positive and negative reinforcement. Socialism doesn't have enough or either to be viable long term.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI don't think so, even though I do tend to think this is a bad idea overall. That is, I tend think the people that are behind it are trying to do good things for people and the environment, they just are misguided in terms of what one can expect from human nature.
IOW, It is too close to socialism, and socialism can't work, because it denies a fundamental element of human nature. Most of us are lazy. There are just too many people that won't work unless they have to to survive. Which means those that do work are unjustly penalized supporting the majority that won't. Capitalism mostly works (in spite of it's flaws) because a person can reap the rewards of his labor but is not funded if he won't work. Survival forces people to work (negative reinforcement), and being rewarded for the effort gives positive reinforcement. The best way to get people to do what they need to do is a combination of positive and negative reinforcement. Socialism doesn't have enough or either to be viable long term.
JimAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThis is all about destroying the largest, most powerful economy in human history. Period...
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI tend think the people that are behind it are trying to do good things for people and the environment, they just are misguided in terms of what one can expect from human nature.
IOW, It is too close to socialism, and socialism can't work, because it denies a fundamental element of human nature.
There are just too many people that won't work unless they have to to survive. Which means those that do work are unjustly penalized supporting the majority that won't.
Capitalism mostly works (in spite of it's flaws) because a person can reap the rewards of his labor but is not funded if he won't work."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by DesertBerean View PostAccording to this article, it's a non binding resolution...yet the Senate may move to vote on it...
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/12/69406...to-senate-vote
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAnd yet the government repeatedly refers to it as a bill"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIs your point that their website could use improvement as it refers to everything as a bill? Or are you genuinely stupid enough to think this is a bill?"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIs your point that their website could use improvement as it refers to everything as a bill? Or are you genuinely stupid enough to think this is a bill?
Joint resolutions are designated H.J. Res. or S.J. Res. and are followed by a number. Like a bill, a joint resolution requires the approval of both Chambers in identical form and the president’s signature to become law. There is no real difference between a joint resolution and a bill.
Please note the bolded part
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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