Originally posted by One Bad Pig
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orthodox Christians only.
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Bishops and Apostles
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThe concept of the early church was that apostles needed to be sent by Jesus Himself; Paul, who saw him "last of all, as one who is born out of due time" would necessarily have been the last.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostScripture proves this untrue.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostScripture proves this untrue.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIn this case, he was on the agenda to speak because the previous president (I'm now president of the association) had invited him, and I inherited that agenda. He failed to show, so if he tries again, I'll just politely tell him he had his chance, and wasn't gracious enough to notify us he wouldn't be there.
I actually had a meeting with our VP, secretary and treasurer to agree that we'll use those offices (the four of us) as an executive committee to approve or decline any requests to address our group. The others agree we don't really need to hear from an "Apostle" without a really good reason.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostHow, pray tell?
Rom. 16:7 shows Andronicus and Junia were apostles in some sense, but not necessarily in the same sense as Paul.
One could easily infer from Eph. 4:10-14 and 1 Cor. 12:28 in the whole context of 1 Cor. 12-14 that all gifts including apostles will remain until the Lord's return, but even if that is not the case, Scripture clearly shows the existence of apostles later than Paul.
Honestly, it baffles me that people keep trotting out the "Paul was the last apostle" trope.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
Comment
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostThe primary proofs are Acts 14:14 and 1 Thess. 1:1 with 2:7. These show that Barnabas, Silvanus, and Timothy were all apostles in the same class as Paul.
Rom. 16:7 shows Andronicus and Junia were apostles in some sense, but not necessarily in the same sense as Paul.
One could easily infer from Eph. 4:10-14 and 1 Cor. 12:28 in the whole context of 1 Cor. 12-14 that all gifts including apostles will remain until the Lord's return, but even if that is not the case, Scripture clearly shows the existence of apostles later than Paul.
Honestly, it baffles me that people keep trotting out the "Paul was the last apostle" trope.
From the blog post here: https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B13...e-risen-christ
The first chapter of Acts gives a fascinating, intimate glimpse of the Body of Christ in its infancy, including a detailed account of how the apostles identified the man who would replace Judas as the twelfth apostle. In verses 21-22, Peter declares that
"it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us—beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."
According to Peter, the new apostle needed to be someone who was associated with Christ, who had consistently sat under His teaching, and who had witnessed firsthand His ministry and life. It wasn’t enough to know about Christ—the replacement apostle needed to know Him personally. In particular, he needed to have known Christ after His resurrection.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostThe key being "witnesses to the resurrection", which the men you mentioned in the NT likely were. Nobody since Paul has seen the resurrected Lord.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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On a side note, one of my favorite Bible Trivia questions is ... who is the most important Apostle in the Bible - the one who had the greatest impact on Salvation?
Very few people ever name Jesus.
“Consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession” (Hebrews 3:1)
BIBLE TRIVIA, not theology!The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWell, it is unlikely that Timothy was a witness to the resurrection, as he is pretty clearly younger than Paul. It is also unlikely that Paul would have considered Timothy an apostle at the point he first visited Thessalonica in Acts 17 (he had just added Timothy to his care the previous chapter; he was not part of the mission as sent from Antioch).
Paul's conversion didn't take place that many years after the resurrection. Timothy may have been a child, but it's very possible that he and his family were some of the tens of thousands who were in Jerusalem that Passover week.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostPaul's conversion didn't take place that many years after the resurrection. Timothy may have been a child, but it's very possible that he and his family were some of the tens of thousands who were in Jerusalem that Passover week.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostPossible, but his father was a Greek - and may not have been willing to make such trips, or allow his family members to make them; after all, he didn't allow his son to be circumcised, and that was much more important than a trip to Jerusalem.
Then perhaps Timothy and the others cannot be considered capital "A" Apostles. There were many "a" apostles.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostI don't think Timothy was actually ever called an apostle in scripture, but a pastor.
Somebody prove me wrong.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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