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Thread: Breaking news ... Walls do work

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Breaking news ... Walls do work

    Breaking news ... Walls do work



    OF ALL THE Democrat arguments against a southern border wall, the shadiest is that it would not work.

    According to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., President Donald J. Trump is “forcing American taxpayers to waste billions of dollars on an expensive and ineffective wall.”

    As he joined Pelosi in rebutting the President’s Jan. 8 Oval Office address, Senate Democrat leader Chuck Schumer of New York decried Trump’s “ineffective, unnecessary border wall.” Schumer added: “We can secure our border without an expensive, ineffective wall.”

    In fact, walls work. Love them or hate them, their effectiveness is indisputable.

    • “Part of our area is covered with some fencing on our east side. That accounts for about 6 percent of our traffic,” Border Patrol chief Raul Ortiz told journalists during Trump’s Jan. 10 visit to Rio Grande Valley, Texas. “Where we have no fencing, over 90 percent of our traffic occurs in those areas.”

    A day earlier, Ortiz added, 450 people were apprehended in the unfenced sector, including 133 from such non-Latin nations as India, Pakistan, and Romania.

    • Some 560,000 illegals were caught astride San Diego and Tijuana in Fiscal Year 1992, when a border wall was installed there. By FY 2017, the Border Patrol says it snared 26,086 — down 95.3 percent.

    • A barrier between the Tucson, Ariz., sector and Nogales, Mexico, was erected in 2000. That year’s 616,346 arrests plunged to 38,657 in FY 2017 — down 93.7 percent.

    • A fence installed at the border between Yuma, Ariz., and Los Algondones, Mexico, brought apprehensions from 138,438 in FY 2005 to 12,847 in FY 2018 — down 90.7 percent.

    “Crime has significantly decreased in the Yuma area,” then-acting Homeland Security Secretary Elaine Duke wrote in USA Today in August 2017, “and smugglers now look for other less difficult areas of the border to cross — often areas without fencing.”

    • A 150-mile barrier between Israel and southern Egypt cut the number of illegal-alien entrants from 17,000 in 2011 to 43 in 2013 after the fence’s completion, Israel’s Ministry of the Interior states — down 99.7 percent.

    • Bulgaria erected a barrier on its Turkish perimeter in 2013. That year’s 11,000 illegal crossings dropped to 4,000 in 2014 — down 63.6 percent.

    • Just as British Gibraltar dangles from Spain’s underside, Spanish Ceuta and Melilla surf atop Morocco. Multiple fences and barriers there sliced 2014’s 2,100 arrests at the Spanish-territorial/Moroccan frontier to 2015’s 100 — down 95.2 percent.

    The strongest proof that walls work is that Democrats once loved them.

    Former and current senators Joe Biden, Tom Carper, Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, Barack Obama, Chuck Schumer, Debbie Stabenow, and Ron Wyden were among the 26 Democrats who voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006. It authorized 700 miles of double-fence. All 54 Senate Democrats voted unanimously in June 2013 for $46 billion in border security, including 350 miles of new steel fence.

    “Between 2005 and 2015, polls show that nearly half of Democrats continued to support building a border barrier of some kind,” Cato Institute scholar Emily Ekins wrote in The Federalist. “However, things changed in 2015 when Donald Trump announced his bid for the presidency,” she continued. “Democratic support shifted more swiftly starting in the fall of 2015 onward. Now only about 12 percent of Democrats support a border wall or fence.”

    Meanwhile, Republicans consistently have endorsed a wall, Ekins reported: 73 percent in October 2015; 71 percent today.

    So, Trump Derangement Syndrome actually causes Democrats’ borderphobia.

    Indeed, Ekins elaborated, “Reuter/Ipsos found that simply telling Democrats Trump supports a policy turns them against it — even universal health care.” Saying to Democrats that Trump favors government medicine drives their enthusiasm for it from 68 percent to 47. If Trump likes it, Democrats loathe it.

    Walls work, and Democrats know it. But they want this President to fail.

    So, Democrats battle effective border protection so they can “resist Trump” — national security be damned.

    The Democrat Party truly is America’s arsenal of hypocrisy.

    Deroy Murdock is a Manhattan-based Fox News Contributor, a contributing editor with National Review Online, and a senior fellow with the London Center for Policy Research.
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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Some fencing in strategic places can be useful. The dem politicians have generally voted for that.

    One major problem is much of the border is flood plains and so you can't put up a solid wall because sudden flood water needs somewhere to go and you can't block it.

    Another problem is all Trump's wall prototype designs failed their testing, with the concrete ones doing the worst which is why he changed his rhetoric to "steel slats", but even the steel ones could be cut through with a hacksaw from a local hardware shop.

    You've also got many issues of private land ownership on and across the border where you'd be confiscating or dividing private property which is not usually something conservatives favor.

    Some basic fencing in appropriate areas plus high tech surveillance and lots of border patrol officers seems the best solution. But that's what the Dems support. It's also what the only House Republican to have a district on the border supports - he's strongly against Trump's Wall idea for a number of reasons.

    You've got to also remember that for a certain price people can buy fake identity documents and use them to enter the country "legally" through standard checkpoints. So once you spend enough money on border defences such that the price of an illegal crossing exceeds the price of fake documents you don't gain anything by additional spending on physical barriers. Given the most common method of illegal immigration is currently flying into the country on a valid visa and then overstaying a focus on physical border security seems rather irrelevant anyway. But if the Wall policy is just an emotional sop to people to make them feel like "something is being done" about immigration, rather than being a policy rationally designed to have an efficient and positive outcome then, well...

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Some Republicans are challenging Pelosi to tear down the border barriers that protect her own state if she really believes they're immoral.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Some fencing in strategic places can be useful. The dem politicians have generally voted for that.

    One major problem is much of the border is flood plains and so you can't put up a solid wall because sudden flood water needs somewhere to go and you can't block it.

    Another problem is all Trump's wall prototype designs failed their testing, with the concrete ones doing the worst which is why he changed his rhetoric to "steel slats", but even the steel ones could be cut through with a hacksaw from a local hardware shop.

    You've also got many issues of private land ownership on and across the border where you'd be confiscating or dividing private property which is not usually something conservatives favor.

    Some basic fencing in appropriate areas plus high tech surveillance and lots of border patrol officers seems the best solution. But that's what the Dems support. It's also what the only House Republican to have a district on the border supports - he's strongly against Trump's Wall idea for a number of reasons.

    You've got to also remember that for a certain price people can buy fake identity documents and use them to enter the country "legally" through standard checkpoints. So once you spend enough money on border defences such that the price of an illegal crossing exceeds the price of fake documents you don't gain anything by additional spending on physical barriers. Given the most common method of illegal immigration is currently flying into the country on a valid visa and then overstaying a focus on physical border security seems rather irrelevant anyway. But if the Wall policy is just an emotional sop to people to make them feel like "something is being done" about immigration, rather than being a policy rationally designed to have an efficient and positive outcome then, well...
    Have you ever cut through a piece of steel, with a hack saw?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    One of Trump's steel border wall prototypes after hacksaw-testing:



    Video courtesy of Fox News of some migrants in Arizona climbing over the border wall at night:



    Because humans have invented the advanced technology known as "a ladder" they have a reasonably easy time of it.

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    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Some Republicans are challenging Pelosi to tear down the border barriers that protect her own state if she really believes they're immoral.
    It's the scope and political context of the two efforts that are so different. The Dems have always supported border security, but not Trump’s big beautiful wall. They supported a bill to build more border fencing in 2006…and subsequently. The Secure Fence Act of 2006 called for construction of 700 miles of fencing and enhanced surveillance technology, such as unmanned drones, ground-based sensors, satellites, radar coverage and cameras. In short, total border security is what Pelosi is after not just the wall which she correctly thinks will not work.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    One of Trump's steel border wall prototypes after hacksaw-testing:


    That photo with the "hacksawing" looks more like somebody used an oxygen acetylene torch (a "fire wrench"), not a hack saw. And the point the border agents are making (you know, the guys who are really down there in the middle of this) is that the wall won't stop everybody, but it will slow them down and make it more likely they'll get caught.
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  8. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    You should probably listen to the only Republican House member to have a border district in Texas:

    “This [is a] fallacy that a wall equals border security. I have more border than any other member of Congress, 820 miles of the border. I spent a decade as an undercover officer in the CIA chasing bad guys,” Hurd said.

    “We are monitoring or keeping track of the wrong metric. It is not how many miles of wall that is going to keep us safe. Are we keeping bad guys and are we keeping drugs out of our country? The best way to do that is with technology and manpower. Building a wall from sea to shining sea is the most expensive and least effective way to keep the border secure.”

    "What are the root causes of illegal immigration? Violence and lack of economic opportunities in places like the Northern Triangle – El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala. We should be talking about plussing up the State Department’s budget, USAID’s budget."

    “We should be working with Mexico on this issue. The Mexican president, Lopez Obrador just announced $30 billion in economic development for Central America. We should be partnering with them on that to address those root-driving that is causing illegal immigration to come to our country."

    “But, we are not using the latest and greatest technology along the border. A Smart Wall using technology, we can deploy that for under a billion dollars all through the entire border, and do that within a year. That is how we secure our border. That is how we have operational control of the border and making sure that we are protecting the American people.”

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    He is certainly entitled to his opinion.
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    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    He is certainly entitled to his opinion.
    It's an opinion grounded in facts and one shared by Pelosi and the Dems. It is an expensive fallacy to equate Donald's big border wall with border security. Strategic fencing along some sections of the border in conjunction with a whole raft of smart technology is what's required. Plus a major upgrade of security at other points of entry.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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