Why Democrats Can’t Talk Honestly About Abortion

[Cow Poke]

...It seems patently absurd that any state would pass a law permitting the killing of a viable infant after it is separate from the woman's body. ...

Prior to this week past, I would have agreed. Pay close attention....

Here is video showing Kathy Tran, a Democrat, admitting that her bill - HB 2491 - would allow a baby to be killed as it was being born.

Not that the transcript doesn't exactly match the audio/video --- but it's clear that it's a faithful representation of it. Her words were "My bill would allow that".

Kathy Tran, a Democrat, was elected to the Virginia House of Delegates in 2017, one of a record 28 women chosen for the legislative chamber that year. She introduced HB 2491 earlier this year, and in a committee hearing on Monday, she was questioned about the bill by fellow delegate Todd Gilbert, a Republican.

“How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated it would impair the mental health of the woman?” Gilbert asked.

“Through the third trimester,” Tran responded. “The third trimester goes all the way up to 40 weeks.”

“Where it’s obvious that a woman is about to give birth,” Gilbert then asked, “would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified? She’s dilating.”

“My bill would allow that,” Tran said.

[Cow Poke]

That's why I didn't read 90% of your OP article.

This hurts me so deeply, I'm gonna have a chocolate fudge sundae in your honor.

[Christianbookworm]

Uh... there isn't any difference between a full term fetus and a newborn. So, the main reason to not kill babies is to not tick off an omnipotent being! Now, what would be some good reasons for a non-theist to be against infanticide?

[Cow Poke]

Well a lot of conservatives on this forum who get so hung up about abortion seem to be fine with murder when its done by police to criminals, ....

How bout backing up this idiot statement with at least 3 actual quotes proving you're not a liar. I dare you.

[carpedm9587]

Prior to this week past, I would have agreed. Pay close attention....

Here is video showing Kathy Tran, a Democrat, admitting that her bill - HB 2491 - would allow a baby to be killed as it was being born.

Not that the transcript doesn't exactly match the audio/video --- but it's clear that it's a faithful representation of it. Her words were "My bill would allow that".

Kathy Tran, a Democrat, was elected to the Virginia House of Delegates in 2017, one of a record 28 women chosen for the legislative chamber that year. She introduced HB 2491 earlier this year, and in a committee hearing on Monday, she was questioned about the bill by fellow delegate Todd Gilbert, a Republican.

“How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated it would impair the mental health of the woman?” Gilbert asked.

“Through the third trimester,” Tran responded. “The third trimester goes all the way up to 40 weeks.”

“Where it’s obvious that a woman is about to give birth,” Gilbert then asked, “would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified? She’s dilating.”

“My bill would allow that,” Tran said.

OK- so the article misrepresents this statement. The baby is not "already born and separate from the woman." The woman is in labor, about to give birth. These are not the same thing.

And when you add the rest of the bill - which clearly states that the baby must be non-viable, or the woman's life must be in jeopardy, and requires consulting physicians to agree that one of these two conditions has been met...well... the article is grossly misleading.

Indeed, all the law appears to do is amend an existing law to add "non-viable fetus" to the list of reasons for the late-term abortion. All of this "hype" is trying to paint a picture where a healthy woman can abort a healthy infant as it emerges from between her legs "just because she wants to." Nothing could be further from the truth.

And I notice that no one has actually answered the question asked: does anyone here think that some 58% of their neighbors and fellow citizens are functioning sociopaths?

[carpedm9587]

Uh... there isn't any difference between a full term fetus and a newborn. So, the main reason to not kill babies is to not tick off an omnipotent being! Now, what would be some good reasons for a non-theist to be against infanticide?

Because I value life - with a special place held for sentient life...
Because wanton destruction of sentient life leads to a society that makes it less likely that I or the ones I love will survive...
Ergo - my own moral framework includes a prohibition against wanton killing - and I believe that anyone who values life (as I do) would reason to the same conclusion.

It's not that complicated.

[Christianbookworm]

Why do I get the feeling us Christians would be nihilists if Christianity wasn't true?

[Mountain Man]

Well a lot of conservatives on this forum who get so hung up about abortion seem to be fine with murder when its done by police to criminals, the State in the death-penalty, individuals with guns in Stand-Your-Ground laws, soldiers in wars, or by drone strikes.

Of course none of those are analogous to killing an innocent human life before it has even left the womb (or even minutes after, if some especially evil liberals have their way).

[Starlight]

Why do I get the feeling us Christians would be nihilists if Christianity wasn't true?

I've wondered the same thing... the Christians in this forum seem really psychologically disturbed compared to other Christians I've known in my life and a lot of them seem to be nihilists and have little to no empathy or concern for their fellow human beings - merely a will to obey what they perceive as God's commands. i.e. a lot of Christian posters here don't seem to be motivated by any sort of genuine love for or concern for other people, merely a selfish concern for themselves that God will punish them if they don't do what he wants. So if, and when, they stopped believing that God was going to punish them, little would stop them doing a homicidal rampage. It's pretty scary.

[Christianbookworm]

We're just messing with you. And like imagining Jesus giving out very stern lectures. Or at least I do. I want to be good because Jesus is good, not because He will be angry at my misbehavior. God's relation to those who trust Him is different than those who refuse to trust Him. An omnipotent being is terrifying if you don't trust said being. If you do trust said being, then there isn't any logical reason to be afraid.

[Mountain Man]

Why do I get the feeling us Christians would be nihilists if Christianity wasn't true?

As singer/songwriter Steve Taylor put it, "Some wonder what causes so many people to commit suicide. I wonder what causes so many people not to. Everyday I'm convinced afresh that apart from God, nothing makes sense."

[Christianbookworm]

If all is just matter, nothing matters. If God created all matter, then everything matters. Origin of quote unknown...

[Terraceth]

Well a lot of conservatives on this forum who get so hung up about abortion seem to be fine with murder when its done by police to criminals, the State in the death-penalty, individuals with guns in Stand-Your-Ground laws, soldiers in wars, or by drone strikes. All of which I am against in general. So maybe ask yourself and fellow conservatives your question first: Why you all are so okay with murder under many circumstances but get very upset about it when it comes to abortion?

Actually, I do oppose some of those. However, there are several key differences. First, from my understanding, the death toll of everything you just cited combined, at least in regards to the United States, is not as high as the number of abortions performed in the country. Second, in all of the cases cited, the killing was--or at least was supposed to be--against someone who wasn't an innocent. The death penalty is used against criminals, drone strikes are used against threats, and killing in war is killing someone who is actively attempting to kill you. Yes--innocents can get killed in such things, and reasonable precautions should be taken to try to prevent such things from happening. But in none of those cases is the goal to kill an innocent, unlike abortion.

[Starlight]

Yes--innocents can get killed in such things, and reasonable precautions should be taken to try to prevent such things from happening. But in none of those cases is the goal to kill an innocent, unlike abortion.

What happened to Original Sin?

[Christianbookworm]

Oh, and a certain wise Person stated that the Kingdom of Heaven belonged to those who accepted it with the trust of a child.