Venezuela's Rank-and-File Soldiers Have Been Deserting in Droves

[mikewhitney]

Here's one video from Florida Marquis. But he does have a bunch on this topic.

[One Bad Pig]

These countries should have just voted for Guaido in the original election and just leave the people of Venezuela out of the election.

The election which Venezuelans themselves viewed as highly rigged and which many didn't bother to dignify by voting?

I was watching youtube videos by Florida Marquis who appears to have a clearer understanding of what has been going on in Venezuela.

If by "clearer" you mean "pro-Maduro"....

Maduro has been acting on behalf of the country and its people.

Maduro has been acting on behalf of himself and his grasp on power.

But there has been a refusal of other countries to purchase oil ... and this affected people who would have been farmers but got became oil workers. So, food supplies have been a problem. But the people are able to cross the border to purchase the food they need; this, of course, reduces the cash available in Venezuela.

Anyhow, that is the best I can remember of the details described of the Venezuela situation.

Yes, socialist countries with centralized economies tend to have problems like that - not because other countries refuse to purchase oil, but because the government puts workers where they're not needed because it thinks it knows best.

[Sparko]

These countries should have just voted for Guaido in the original election and just leave the people of Venezuela out of the election.

I was watching youtube videos by Florida Marquis who appears to have a clearer understanding of what has been going on in Venezuela.

Maduro has been acting on behalf of the country and its people. But there has been a refusal of other countries to purchase oil ... and this affected people who would have been farmers but got became oil workers. So, food supplies have been a problem. But the people are able to cross the border to purchase the food they need; this, of course, reduces the cash available in Venezuela.

Anyhow, that is the best I can remember of the details described of the Venezuela situation.

Venezuela military sets up blockade on bridge to stop aid from Colombia




https://www.foxnews.com/world/venezu...ombiaVenezuela military sets up blockade on bridge to stop aid from Colombia

[lilpixieofterror]

We are fortunate to have Starlight - he's a very good indicator of right and wrong. If he thinks something is right, we can pretty well it to the bank that it's wrong.

I thank Starlight for being our lighthouse.

[mikewhitney]

Here's a guy affirming Florida Maquis' concerns
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sPU7UMQie00

Here's the latest from Florida Maquis

He noted on a video that the Christians in Venezuela are aligned with the 'Left' -- so the terms are sort of reversed from here in the States.

We have to remember that we have additional sources of information. We don't just have to receive info through standard media -- which has proven to be rather untrustworthy.

[rogue06]

Here's a guy affirming Florida Maquis' concerns
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sPU7UMQie00

Here's the latest from Florida Maquis

He noted on a video that the Christians in Venezuela are aligned with the 'Left' -- so the terms are sort of reversed from here in the States.

We have to remember that we have additional sources of information. We don't just have to receive info through standard media -- which has proven to be rather untrustworthy.

Apparently Georgetown University's Berkley Center for Religion, Peace, and World Affairs doesn't see it that way

Source: Venezuela and the Role of Religious Institutions during State Crises

The accelerating collapse of the Venezuelan economy over the past few years has spawned political protests and has precipitated a humanitarian crisis. Poverty, starvation, and violence are rampant. Amidst this turmoil, 1.2 million Venezuelans have left the country in the past two years, the largest refugee movement in Latin American history. The vast majority of them have fled to neighboring states, especially Colombia, which struggles to provide for them. President Nicolás Maduro has warned Roman Catholic clergy to avoid speaking about the upheaval or criticizing the government. Pro-Maduro paramilitaries and protesters have targeted churches and threatened priests in a pattern of violent incidents, including an assault on the archbishop of Caracas. Meanwhile, humanitarian organizations, including several affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church, are working to provide food and healthcare and help resettle refugees. However, this is complicated by the Venezuelan government’s ban on foreign humanitarian assistance.


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[mikewhitney]

Apparently Georgetown University's Berkley Center for Religion, Peace, and World Affairs doesn't see it that way

Source: Venezuela and the Role of Religious Institutions during State Crises

The accelerating collapse of the Venezuelan economy over the past few years has spawned political protests and has precipitated a humanitarian crisis. Poverty, starvation, and violence are rampant. Amidst this turmoil, 1.2 million Venezuelans have left the country in the past two years, the largest refugee movement in Latin American history. The vast majority of them have fled to neighboring states, especially Colombia, which struggles to provide for them. President Nicolás Maduro has warned Roman Catholic clergy to avoid speaking about the upheaval or criticizing the government. Pro-Maduro paramilitaries and protesters have targeted churches and threatened priests in a pattern of violent incidents, including an assault on the archbishop of Caracas. Meanwhile, humanitarian organizations, including several affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church, are working to provide food and healthcare and help resettle refugees. However, this is complicated by the Venezuelan government’s ban on foreign humanitarian assistance.


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Sure. But now we have the opportunity to get information from more perspectives so that we can try to figure out whether the sources blend into a fuller picture or whether certain sources are closer to the heart of the matter. As outsiders we may think we have to cure everything when the people are interested in taking care of their own problems. Often the cure can be worse than the sickness.

Also, it would not be a surprise if many people left the country because the sanctions were leading to their starvation. So, if people have been leaving, it may not have been due to the leaders -- even if the leaders are corrupt. How many people in the States have left because of corrupt leaders? And why are we to suspect that the leader that other countries endorse will therefore be a kinder,gentler dictator?

[rogue06]

Sure. But now we have the opportunity to get information from more perspectives so that we can try to figure out whether the sources blend into a fuller picture or whether certain sources are closer to the heart of the matter. As outsiders we may think we have to cure everything when the people are interested in taking care of their own problems. Often the cure can be worse than the sickness.

Also, it would not be a surprise if many people left the country because the sanctions were leading to their starvation. So, if people have been leaving, it may not have been due to the leaders -- even if the leaders are corrupt. How many people in the States have left because of corrupt leaders? And why are we to suspect that the leader that other countries endorse will therefore be a kinder,gentler dictator?

I was noting how what they said flies squarely in the face with Maquis' assessment that the Christians in Venezuela are aligned with the 'Left'. After all, if that was the case why would Maduro feel the need to threaten his friends and allies (if that's what they are) to keep their mouths shut? Why would Marudo's supporters be targeting churches and priests with acts of violence if they were on the same side?

[mikewhitney]

I was noting how what they said flies squarely in the face with Maquis' assessment that the Christians in Venezuela are aligned with the 'Left'. After all, if that was the case why would Maduro feel the need to threaten his friends and allies (if that's what they are) to keep their mouths shut? Why would Marudo's supporters be targeting churches and priests with acts of violence if they were on the same side?

Right. But the Georgetown analysis may be based on opinions and perspectives of some RCC priests but not on the views of the general population of Christians. We are able to get a broader view so we aren't reliant on one source of information.

[rogue06]

Right. But the Georgetown analysis may be based on opinions and perspectives of some RCC priests but not on the views of the general population of Christians. We are able to get a broader view so we aren't reliant on one source of information.

Latin American Tribute:

Source: Venezuela Government Attacks Against Catholic Church Intensify

Attacks against the Catholic Church in Venezuela are growing in number and intensity, the church said Monday.

During Sunday mass in Caracas, a Chavista biker gang interrupted the service, sequestered the flock and forced them to listen to a pro-government tirade, days after Vatican-brokered talks between the embattled government of Nicolas Maduro and the opposition broke down.

Monsignor Diego Padron, president of the Venezuelan Episcopalian Conference, said during a radio interview Monday morning that the attacks were not isolated incidents but events “staged to intimidate”.

“These events, you have to really look at them with precaution and care because I am under the impression that they are no longer isolated events, like they use to say in police jargon,” Monsignor Padron said during Monday’s emission of “The Union is the Strength”, a radio show conducted by opposition politician Jesus “Chuo” Torrealba. “There seems to be some line, or element unifying (the events). And we have to denounce it, because if we do not denounce it, the alarm will not reach the people. It is necessary that our Catholic people, that the religious people, are aware of this situation”.

CHAVISTA MASS IN “SAN PEDRO CLAVER”

Meanwhile, Sunday afternoon, in a pro-government section of Caracas, an armed band took over the San Pedro Claver Church during mass in the “23 de Enero” neighborhood. “Chavismo” and that section of Caracas have a long story: in 1992, when his coup attempt failed, Chavez took refuge in what was then the Army Museum. He surrendered there and was spared. The building is home to the Chavez mausoleum, since 2013, and it has its own chapel, where images of Chavez are venerated and candles lit to them.

On Sunday, however, the “chavistas” decided to go one step further: they shut down the Church’s gates, prevented the flock from leaving and forced them to listen to a political speech, according to local and social media.

Monsignor Jesus Gonzalez de Zarate had to negotiate with the occupiers before they left, the opposition organization MUD reported.

CHURCH VS CHAVISMO

Venezuela is a predominantly Catholic country. Pope John Paul II visited several times, in the 1980’s and 1990’s. One of the largest shows of Catholic faith in the hemisphere, the “Divina Pastora” procession, takes place in Venezuela every January and is considered second only to the “Virgen de Guadalupe” celebrations in Mexico.

Venezuelans have figured prominently in Catholic hierarchy: two current members of the Cardinal’s College, the organization that elects Catholic Popes, hail from the oil-rich country, with the second Venezuelan Cardinal, Monsignor Baltazar Porras, having been appointed very recently, in October 2016.

Cardinal Porras has been critical of the Maduro administration, as well as that of Maduro’s predecessor and mentor, Hugo Chavez. However, when Chavez was deposed for 72 hours in a coup in 2002, Porras interceded and the imprisoned President’s life was spared, which allowed Chavez to maneuver a comeback.

The relationship between Chavez and the Catholic Church was always a strained one.

While the late President insisted he was a practicing Catholic, he divorced twice. And Church hierarchy often pointed out to him, publicly, that his socialist policies and Catholic teachings were in contradiction. Chavez famously retorted calling critical priests “devils in cloth”, “clowns of the Empire (USA)” and, when news arrived of the death of Venezuelan Cardinal Ignacio Velasco, the late President sent him off with the phrase: “See you in hell, Monsignor.”

After Chavez’s words on television back then, Velasco’s wake procession was attacked by a pro-Chavez mob, less than one year after Porras helped Chavez stay alive.

RECENT ATTACKS

Maduro sought out the Catholic Church in October 2016 after his government unconstitutionally cancelled the Recall Referendum mounting against him raised the country's ire to boiling point. In a surprise visit, Maduro stopped at the Vatican to ask the Church to sponsor a round of dialogue meetings with the opposition. The church not only agreed but even sent a special envoy asking the Opposition to put off an irate march against the government while tempers were high over the Chavista regime's scrapping of the constitutional way out of the crisis.

However, the temporary respite in Church-Chavismo relations was not meant to last. The dialogue crumbled in January, after the government fulfilled none of the their promises reached after months of talks.

Shortly afterwards, the present wave of attacks began, and it was more intense than anything Venezuela has seen since the Federal Wars of the 19th Century.

The 352-year old Cathedral of Caracas, the seat of the city’s Archdiocese, was itself vandalized last week, according to the Venezuelan Episcopalian Conference.

The first serious attack this year came on January 18th, when the Archbishop of Barquisimeto was placed under siege by a pro-Government mob that hurled anti-Catholic slurs as well as offense aimed at Archbishop Antonio Jose Lopez Castillo. Archbishop Lopez had publicly criticized the Maduro administration in a sermon only days before, during the yearly parade of “La Divina Pastora” in Barquisimeto.


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La Croix International (which bills itself as the Premiere Independent Catholic Daily):

Source: Nuncio targeted in church attacks in Venezuela

Church leadership remains at odds with government

The Vatican's nuncio to Venezuela, Archbishop Aldo Giordano, was the apparent target of a series church bombings, Fides reports. (Photo: Vatican Radio)

Four Catholic churches in Venezuela were hit by gas bombs in an attack that apparently targeted the Vatican nuncio, reported Fides.

Archbishop Aldo Giordano was visiting the city of Merida, where the attacks occurred early on Jan. 30, Father Luis Sanchez, pastor of El Llano parish in Merida, told Fides, the information service of the Pontifical Mission Societies.

In a separate statement, Villca Fernandez of the Movimiento Liberacion condemned "the vile and cowardly attack" against the churches."

The attack tries to sow terror and fear among the population in Merida. An attack against a place of worship is an attack on religious freedom and against the historical heritage of Merida," Fernandez said.

The Movimiento Liberacion through social networks, has immediately called for a prayer vigil in front of the El Llano church to express support toward the Holy See and reject the violence of these acts.

Churches also were attacked in Venezuela last March amid civil unrest. In Merida, a city of 200,000 people, a church was attacked during the celebration of Mass.

Church leadership in Venezuela has frequently been at odds with the government since the rise of the regime led by the late Hugo Chavez.


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Agenzia Fides (Information service of the Pontifical Mission Societies since 1927):

Source: AMERICA/VENEZUELA - Four churches attacked in Mérida

Four Catholic churches were hit by petrol bombs and even the Apostolic Nuncio, Aldo Giordano, who is visiting the city of Mérida is the target of these attacks. The incident occurred yesterday at dawn, reports Fr. Luis Sánchez, pastor of the parish El Llano, in the area of El Llano in Merida.

Fides also received the statement of Villca Fernández, of the Movimiento Liberación (university movement), who condemns "the vile and cowardly attack" against several churches: "The attack tries to sow terror and fear among the population in Mérida.

An attack against a place of worship is an attack on religious freedom and against the historical heritage of Mérida".

The University Movement, through social networks, has immediately called for a prayer vigil in front of El Llano church to express support towards the Holy See and reject the violence of these acts.


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America Jesuit Review (a story from the Catholic News Service):

Source: ‘Devils in a cassock’: Venezuela’s Maduro attacks church leaders

The strenuous relationship between the Venezuelan regime and local church leaders deteriorated further in January, with President Nicolas Maduro calling two bishops "devils in a cassock."

During his comments to the pro-government National Constituent Assembly Jan. 15, Maduro also ordered the attorney general to investigate the bishops for hate crimes.

"One of those two called us a 'plague,'" Maduro said. "It will be seen whether this constitutes a real hate crime that aims to create fighting between Venezuelans."

Maduro referred to comments made by the Bishop Victor Basabe of San Felipe and Archbishop Antonio Lopez Castillo of Barquisimeto.

On Jan. 14, during the annual procession of the Divine Shepherdess, which attracts millions in the western city of Barquisimeto, both bishops spoke out against corruption, which they said has contributed to the country's spiraling economic crisis.

According to local outlet noticiasbarquisimeto.com, Bishop Basabe told the crowd that Venezuelans who have left the country "will never be foreigners" and that when they return they will all "have the task of reconstructing our country so that the plague that today devastates us becomes part of the past."

Bishop Basabe also rebuked those "determined to never understand that the fundamental cause of the crisis in Venezuela is the continuation of a political, social and economic model that denies God and, therefore, human dignity."

Archbishop Lopez made similar comments, according to newspaper El Carabobeno, calling on the Divine Shepherdess to "free us from hunger and corruption."

Speaking with Catholic News Service after Mass at Santa Rosa Church Jan. 28, Archbishop Lopez said he does not regret the comments.

"I've said what I should say, and we will see if there are consequences," he said. "People here are hungry, there's no medicine, there are no repair parts for vehicles, and everybody sees that, so I'm not lying."

Venezuela continues to suffer a deep economic crisis that has resulted in surging levels of child malnutrition and shortages of affordable foods and medicines.

Archbishop Lopez calls the law that Maduro threatened to use against him "an attempt to eliminate all opposition, so that nobody has a different opinion and everything becomes incitation of hate."

Venezuela's hate crime law, passed in November by the pro-government assembly, vaguely prohibits the dissemination of hateful messages. Opposition leaders and journalists have decried the move as an attempt to crack down on all dissent.

"They want the church to stay quiet, but we only obey God," Archbishop Lopez said.

While the Venezuelan bishops' conference and the socialist government have often clashed, the rhetoric has intensified since Vatican-sponsored talks between the government and opposition collapsed in early 2017.

In April, the bishops called for "peaceful civil disobedience" to restore constitutional order, later labeling the government a "military dictatorship."

Church leaders have faced repercussions for their dissent, with pro-government gangs even crashing Sunday Masses, forcing churchgoers to listen to pro-government speeches and shouting insults at priests.

Father Enrique Yanes said the confrontations resulted from the church assuming a "protagonist role" in denouncing "the problems that a communist and totalitarian system brings."

Father Yanes regularly attended anti-government protests last year and even presided over the funeral Mass of several young protesters who died in the conflict. He also officiated the funeral of Oscar Perez, a former police agent turned rebel who attempted to initiate a rebellion against the government, stealing a government helicopter and flying over Caracas.

"I personally consider myself a conscious Venezuelan who is calling for what is just," he said. "I don't consider myself part of either political side."

The clashes between the church and government appear set to escalate further ahead of presidential elections, hastily announced by the pro-government assembly and set to take place before April 30.

The bishops' conference has already criticized the way authorities announced the election, calling the assembly "unconstitutional and illegitimate in its origin and actions."

Archbishop Lopez and Bishop Basabe remain under investigation for hate crimes, although the archbishop said he doubted authorities would press charges since "the majority of Venezuelans are against the government."

At the Jan. 28 Mass, churchgoers who spoke with Catholic News Service backed the bishops.

"The first people who should face the hate law (are) the government (officials) themselves," said Enrico Sciscioli. "Every time they're on TV, any speech they make, they're inciting hate."



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Further Reading:

Miami Herald: Catholic Church calls Venezuela government ‘dictatorship’

National Catholic Register: Catholic Church in Venezuela Suffers With Her People

Crux: Attacks show Venezuelan government relations with Catholics deteriorating

Crux: Vatican diplomat decries attacks against Church in Venezuela

[mikewhitney]

If I remember things correctly, Martin Luther had some issues with the RCC too.

A conflict between the government and the RCC can be reasonable if the RCC is not actually representing the interests of people in Venezuela.

I'm not generally for anything of the socialist/communist inclination ... but the issues in Venezuela may not be so simple as just pro-dictator/anti-dictator or pro-communists/anti-communist battles.

[rogue06]

If I remember things correctly, Martin Luther had some issues with the RCC too.

A conflict between the government and the RCC can be reasonable if the RCC is not actually representing the interests of people in Venezuela.

I'm not generally for anything of the socialist/communist inclination ... but the issues in Venezuela may not be so simple as just pro-dictator/anti-dictator or pro-communists/anti-communist battles.

My point is to question Maquis' assessment that the Christians in Venezuela are aligned with the 'Left' or Marudo. If he is mistaken about this then what else has he got wrong? I don't think he is a trustworthy source.

[Starlight]

My point is to question Maquis' assessment that the Christians in Venezuela are aligned with the 'Left' or Marudo.

The social gospel and liberation theology is very strong in South America. A lot of Christians there are aligned with left-wing groups. Also the RCC has a fairly strong tradition of being left-wing in and of itself both in Europe and in South America where it is strong. The current Pope is particularly left-wing due to his origin from South America.

In my own country the strongest religious group was Anglicanism (Church of England) who were very strong on the social gospel and as a result for many years my country was one of the most left-wing in the Western world.

The strong right-wing ties of white evangelicals in the US are quite unusual. Though it's worth noting that black evangelicals in the US are typically left-wing as is more normal internationally. One reason I find it so fascinating to post in this forum is to explore the unusual mindset here that links Christianity to right-wing viewpoints.

[One Bad Pig]

The social gospel and liberation theology is very strong in South America. A lot of Christians there are aligned with left-wing groups. Also the RCC has a fairly strong tradition of being left-wing in and of itself both in Europe and in South America where it is strong. The current Pope is particularly left-wing due to his origin from South America.

In my own country the strongest religious group was Anglicanism (Church of England) who were very strong on the social gospel and as a result for many years my country was one of the most left-wing in the Western world.

The strong right-wing ties of white evangelicals in the US are quite unusual. Though it's worth noting that black evangelicals in the US are typically left-wing as is more normal internationally. One reason I find it so fascinating to post in this forum is to explore the unusual mindset here that links Christianity to right-wing viewpoints.

I quite agree that liberation theology is very strong in South America (and generally in the RCC there). It does not explain, however, the crackdown of pro-Maduro thugs on the RCC. There is doubtless a dynamic we're missing at this remove.

[rogue06]

I quite agree that liberation theology is very strong in South America (and generally in the RCC there). It does not explain, however, the crackdown of pro-Maduro thugs on the RCC. There is doubtless a dynamic we're missing at this remove.

Exactly. If they were all fellow travelers on the same side then Marudo and his thugs wouldn't be calling them such things as devils in cassocks.