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Trump Tax Cut

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    The tax tables. I posted it earlier. The percentage of tax cuts is greatest for the middle class percentage-wise. From about $30-$70 seems to be the highest. Around 16%, higher and it drops down to 13%. Lower and it drops down also (but then they are already at a low tax bracket).

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]35197[/ATTACH]
    Yeah - I thought so. Your data does not say what you think it says.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      This is a succinct breakdown - making it easier to respond. Concerning your three points:



      I never claimed this - so I'm not trying to defend it. You are arguing against a position I did not take. It was clearly significant given the impact on our deficit.



      This I claimed. The middle class benefited some, but the wealthy benefited a LOT more. And the benefits to the wealthy are largely permanent, whereas the benefits to the lower classes largely expire. I have provided the numbers and their sources.



      This has also been shown to be true. I refer you to the various links I've provided that furnish the relevant numbers.
      So much for letting me have the last word.

      No carp, he did not con anyone, yes the tax cut was largest percentage wise for the middle class, I gave you the numbers. And yes it will mean more income for the wealthiest because they pay the largest amount of tax. Just like the middle class pays more than the lower income class. That's how percentages work. A 10% cut for someone who makes $100,000 is going to be larger than a 10% cut for someone who makes $20,000 and results in a proportional increase in income. And that is as it should be. The wealthiest also are the ones who give the poorest and the middle class jobs in the first place. As has been shown in other threads, the companies have been using the tax breaks to give raises (as I was) and hiring more workers.

      I am sure you used your gains to help your employees, didn't you?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        Yeah - I thought so. Your data does not say what you think it says.
        Yes, it does. Even though it irks you greatly and you can't admit it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          So much for letting me have the last word.
          Yeah, your list gave me a convenient place to show where you were putting words in my mouth, and then batting them down (to mix a metaphor or two). I couldn't resist. Add it to my list of "fails" on this front.

          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          No carp, he did not con anyone, yes the tax cut was largest percentage wise for the middle class, I gave you the numbers.
          Which don't show what you think they do because they omit those inconvenient OTHER parts of the tax code (like capping the state/local tax deduction, which pushes people into higher tax brackets).

          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          And yes it will mean more income for the wealthiest because they pay the largest amount of tax. Just like the middle class pays more than the lower income class. That's how percentages work. A 10% cut for someone who makes $100,000 is going to be larger than a 10% cut for someone who makes $20,000 and results in a proportional increase in income. And that is as it should be. The wealthiest also are the ones who give the poorest and the middle class jobs in the first place. As has been shown in other threads, the companies have been using the tax breaks to give raises (as I was) and hiring more workers.
          I have repeatedly noted the increase is not just in dollars - it is in the percentages themselves, which you seem dedicated to ignoring. If we all get to see our taxable income climb by 2% (with no increase in deficits), then no problem - even though the rich make more. Which is as you said. But when the lowest see a 0.4% increase and the wealthiest a 2.9% increase, it's salt on the wound - they are not just making more, they are making more at a higher percentage rate. Hence the tax cut was skewed to the rich, which Trump and the Republicans claimed was not going to happen.

          In other words:

          2% of $20K is $400
          2% of $20M is $400K

          The difference in dollars is huge, but to be expected because the base salary is bigger. The percentages are the same.

          0.4% of $20K is $80
          2.9% of $20M is $580K

          Now the rich don't just have a higher dollar amount; it is hyper inflated by the gross difference in percentages. I cannot imagine anyone looking at the numbers and not saying, "wow, the rich are benefiting far more."

          The tax tables you continually go to mask this effect. At the end of the day, most people are more concerned with their EFFECTIVE tax than the tax table - because the effective tax is the tax they actually pay, and governs what they get to keep in their pocket. For some reason, you seem dedicated to ignoring this reality. I'm not sure why.

          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          I am sure you used your gains to help your employees, didn't you?
          I don't have employees (well, except by part time 84-year-old mother). My company is 100% virtual, and I work with contractors and partners to meet customer demand. My payment to them is based on a fixed percentage of what I invoice my customers after expenses. The tax cut had zero impact on that relationship. And, since I live in a blue state, and I have several deductions that were just excluded, I'm actually going to be one of those statistical outliers: my taxes are going to go up slightly. So my numbers are not a good reflection of the averages we're seeing across the country.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Yes, it does.
            Unfortunately, it doesn't. Sparko. See my other post.

            And now we actually are at an end. Last word to you - and this one I will keep.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              I have repeatedly noted the increase is not just in dollars - it is in the percentages themselves, which you seem dedicated to ignoring. If we all get to see our taxable income climb by 2% (with no increase in deficits), then no problem - even though the rich make more. Which is as you said. But when the lowest see a 0.4% increase and the wealthiest a 2.9% increase, it's salt on the wound - they are not just making more, they are making more at a higher percentage rate. Hence the tax cut was skewed to the rich, which Trump and the Republicans claimed was not going to happen.

              In other words:

              2% of $20K is $400
              2% of $20M is $400K

              The difference in dollars is huge, but to be expected because the base salary is bigger. The percentages are the same.

              0.4% of $20K is $80
              2.9% of $20M is $580K
              If we had a flat income tax, that might work, but since the lower income brackets pay a lot less percentage-wise in income tax than the wealthy, it simply doesn't work that way. The lowest bracket is like 10% income tax, the highest is 37%. 10% reduction of someone in a 10% income tax is not going to be nearly as much as a 10% break of someone who is paying 37%. The net result would be paying 9% and 27%.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                Unfortunately, it doesn't. Sparko. See my other post.

                And now we actually are at an end. Last word to you - and this one I will keep.
                I don't think I will hold my breath.

                Comment

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