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Trump Tax derail - Abortion

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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Dishonesty noted.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      Dishonesty noted.
      Just reading between the lines.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Just reading between the lines.
        ... what you want to see, which is the primary reason there is no point in continuing.
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          ... what you want to see, which is the primary reason there is no point in continuing.
          Jim for someone who constantly touts "science," your argument here was surprisingly subjective and emotional rather than based on any actual science or biology. Then when you couldn't answer my post you left in a huff with a "sour grapes" sort of excuse.

          On the whole, your approach to debating seems to be pretty emotional in the last few months compared to how you were in Nat Sci in the past. I don't know what's going on, but I hope it gets better.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Jim for someone who constantly touts "science," your argument here was surprisingly subjective and emotional rather than based on any actual science or biology. Then when you couldn't answer my post you left in a huff with a "sour grapes" sort of excuse.

            On the whole, your approach to debating seems to be pretty emotional in the last few months compared to how you were in Nat Sci in the past. I don't know what's going on, but I hope it gets better.
            ??? I have given evidence for my position. You have given assertions.

            Sparko, you literally would not admit there is a difference between not having a brain and having one.

            You literally ignored the links I gave discussing consciousness in comatose patients and just reasserted comatose patients - ALL comatose patients - have no consciousness.

            You ignored the fact that the only living thing in your body that was also alive when you were born is your brain and what that means in terms of who YOU are and how that relates to a what a human person is.

            You can't even admit that without a brain or nervous system a baby can't move, or feel, or think.


            And I am the one debating from emotion?



            Jim
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              ??? I have given evidence for my position. You have given assertions.

              Sparko, you literally would not admit there is a difference between not having a brain and having one.

              You literally ignored the links I gave discussing consciousness in comatose patients and just reasserted comatose patients - ALL comatose patients - have no consciousness.

              You ignored the fact that the only living thing in your body that was also alive when you were born is your brain and what that means in terms of who YOU are and how that relates to a what a human person is.

              You can't even admit that without a brain or nervous system a baby can't move, or feel, or think.


              And I am the one debating from emotion?



              Jim
              Yes Jim you are. because none of that means that the organism gestating is not a human being. You have attached a "mind" as the deciding criteria if it is a human being or not. That is an arbitrary decision on your part. and you keep arguing "personhood" when that is a legal distinction.

              1. Is the zygote alive? Yes
              2. Is the zygote part of the mother or a distinct organism? A distinct organism
              3. Is that organism a individual member of the human species, is it a homo sapiens sapiens? Yes.

              Therefore the zygote is a human being.

              That's all that matters. It doesn't matter if it has feet or fingers or a heart or a brain yet. It will get them eventually as it develops. At no time does it change from a non-human into a human, or a non-organism into an organism, or not alive to alive. It always is and will be a human being.
              Last edited by Sparko; 02-16-2019, 01:58 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                Dishonesty noted.
                I don't know if I'd call it dishonesty, but I do find that kind of "fake-quoting" to be rather obnoxious.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  ??? I have given evidence for my position. You have given assertions.

                  Sparko, you literally would not admit there is a difference between not having a brain and having one.

                  You literally ignored the links I gave discussing consciousness in comatose patients and just reasserted comatose patients - ALL comatose patients - have no consciousness.

                  You ignored the fact that the only living thing in your body that was also alive when you were born is your brain and what that means in terms of who YOU are and how that relates to a what a human person is.

                  You can't even admit that without a brain or nervous system a baby can't move, or feel, or think.


                  And I am the one debating from emotion?



                  Jim
                  I would think the fact the pro death supporters are all there to cheer you on might give you some pause, but apparently it doesn’t. Let’s start here - is there a difference between a developing fetus and an adult human that is brain dead?
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    Dishonesty noted.
                    Avoiding my last post noted.
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    - Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                      Avoiding my last post noted.
                      I said i was done here.

                      Jim
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        The article in question cites two-dozen scholarly sources.
                        That's a common feature of junk science. I'm not surprised it impresses you though.

                        Also, a lot of those cites are dictionaries.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          But their genetic sequences are slightly different due to epigenetic changes., thus making them different individuals.
                          It helps to read articles before you cite them:
                          Epigenetic markers vary widely from one person to another, but identical twins were still considered genetically identical because epigenetics influence only the expression of a gene and not the underlying sequence of the gene itself.

                          “When we started this study, people were expecting that only epigenetics would differ greatly between twins,” said Jan Dumanski, a professor of genetics at the University of Alabama at Birmingham and an author of the study. “But what we found are changes on the genetic level, the DNA sequence itself.”

                          The specific changes that Dr. Dumanski and his colleagues identified are known as copy number variations...
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            What is it then?
                            1. Is it human?
                            2. Is it a new organism separate from either parent?
                            3. If left unhindered and remains healthy will it one day become an adult human?
                            Yes, no (it's distinct, but not separate), maybe.

                            I see Jim correctly describing the development stages of the human zygote/morula/blastocyst/embryo/foetus, and I see everyone else (i) making errors, and (ii) assuming he is using those descriptions to justify abortion.

                            I'm entirely sympathetic with Jim here.
                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]35116[/ATTACH]
                              If the convict IS a human being, no justification for the death penalty is adequate.
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                                If the convict IS a human being, no justification for the death penalty is adequate.

                                Here's the thing, Roy. The convict chose to do wrong. The unborn has no choice in anything.


                                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                                Comment

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