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Trump Tax derail - Abortion

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    that is known as "rationalization" - coming up with a reason that your values are not from the pit of hell by imagining God will cover the back of child murderers.
    I consider the rationalizations here to be entirely on the side of the anti-abortionists, whom, having randomly adopted a position that the bible doesn't teach, convince themselves that it's a really important position and that God can't be trusted to deal with the issue himself.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      You guys aren't debating. You're just throwing temper tantrums because I don't think exactly like you.
      That, to their minds, is "debating".
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        I'm simply discussing the reality of what the physical differences are between the zygote and the fully developed baby.
        This looks suspiciously like a straw man. Nobody is disputing that there is a physical difference "between the zygote and the fully developed baby". What we're disputing is that this physical difference is morally significant, but you're so vested in secular ideology on this issue that you can't see that.

        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        Implicit in what you have said is that there is no solid, fact based argument against abortion.
        False. "At the moment of conception, the resulting organism is a human life" is a factual statement.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          "At the moment of conception, the resulting organism is a human life" is a factual statement.
          Hardly. Both the terms "human" and "life" are open to a fair amount of subjectivity and are discussed and disputed by experts in biology. So your statement, far from being any sort of objective fact, totally depends on what definitions are being used.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
            Hardly. Both the terms "human" and "life" are open to a fair amount of subjectivity and are discussed and disputed by experts in biology. So your statement, far from being any sort of objective fact, totally depends on what definitions are being used.
            Post-modern garbage.

            Source: American College of Pediatricians

            The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is one of form, not nature.

            https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-s...an-life-begins

            © Copyright Original Source

            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              I consider the rationalizations here to be entirely on the side of the anti-abortionists, whom, having randomly adopted a position that the bible doesn't teach, convince themselves that it's a really important position and that God can't be trusted to deal with the issue himself.
              I do love it when a non Christian attempts to tell Christians ‘what the Bible really says’ and lo and behold, it always supports what the non Christian wants to believe.
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • #52
                OK, how the heck did a troll thread about Trump's tax returns turn into an abortion debate?
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  OK, how the heck did a troll thread about Trump's tax returns turn into an abortion debate?
                  This is tWeb. That’s how.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    American College of Pediatricians
                    They are a fake advocacy group that uses its misleading name to pretend authority while pushing junk science to support conservative positions.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                      I do love it when a non Christian attempts to tell Christians ‘what the Bible really says’
                      I used to be a Christian. I had views on what the bible said. I did lots of research. I wrote a book.

                      I will grant you though that most Christians on this site are woefully ignorant of what the bible says and/or of any decent knowledge of biblical scholarship. As far as discussion sites go, this is a particularly ignorant one, so my comparatively high level of knowledge about the bible and theology stands out like a sore thumb.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        They are a fake advocacy group that uses its misleading name to pretend authority while pushing junk science to support conservative positions.
                        Nice well poisoning, but you seem to have failed to explain what ‘junk science’ they are using.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          I used to be a Christian. I had views on what the bible said. I did lots of research. I wrote a book.
                          Anybody can write a book these days. Is that supposed to be impressive that you wrote a book in the era of self publishing that almost anything and everything can get published?

                          I will grant you though that most Christians on this site are woefully ignorant of what the bible says and/or of any decent knowledge of biblical scholarship. As far as discussion sites go, this is a particularly ignorant one, so my comparatively high level of knowledge about the bible and theology stands out like a sore thumb.
                          Which means most know more than you because you’re pretty much wrong about everything you say.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            Nice well poisoning, but you seem to have failed to explain what ‘junk science’ they are using.
                            The article in question cites two-dozen scholarly sources.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              I used to be a Christian. I had views on what the bible said. I did lots of research. I wrote a book.

                              You're John Loftus?

                              Uhh... Welcome back
                              ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                This looks suspiciously like a straw man. Nobody is disputing that there is a physical difference "between the zygote and the fully developed baby". What we're disputing is that this physical difference is morally significant, but you're so vested in secular ideology on this issue that you can't see that.
                                I have never argued that the difference is morally significant, or that the difference justified abortion. Those are conclusions you have drawn all on your own. It's just like when I say I think we evolved and Jorge thinks that means I'm an atheist. You've somehow connected saying the zygote is not a human being (yet) with 'abortion is ok'. I'm not doing that. And Augustine didn't do that. And he admitted he didn't know if the fetus was a human being. Does that make him an abortionist? You think like a child MM.

                                False. "At the moment of conception, the resulting organism is a human life" is a factual statement.
                                "At the moment of conception, the resulting organism is human life" is a factual statement. It has not yet become a human baby. It doesn't take long for it to reach stages that are far more debatable as a human being. When it has a heart and arms and legs, for sure when it has a brain and can feel. Those things don't take all that long to become a reality. But when it is one cell ready to go if it can get attached to the womb, no not yet.

                                But does that justify killing it? NO! To stop that developing human life is a sin in almost all cases, and I'll fight and argue for it to have life and become that baby it has the potential to become in all cases except where the life of the mother is threatened. ALL cases. And especially when it is a convenience issue.

                                So I have no clue why you can't think MM, why you can't comprehend that being against abortion does NOT hinge on defining the zygote as a human being. That is just as idiotic as saying the Bible is only the inspired word of God if the earth is less than 10,000 years old.


                                Jim
                                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 02-13-2019, 09:39 PM.
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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