A New Model to Stop the Next School Shooting

[Cow Poke]

....The people I've known motivated to teach are trying the help and love children, not prepare to put a bullet in one.

wow

[oxmixmudd]

No - I was simply asking for more information.... for you to back up what I considered to be a goofy claim. That does NOT mean I was "joining MM in the call for guns". That is a wrong conclusion to which you jumped.

It's not a goofy claim. Unless there has been a massive shift in the sort of person going for a teaching degree since I was in college, most teachers are not going to go along with the idea of being armed, or having some of their fellow teachers being armed.

But if you must have 'proof' of the obvious:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ga...oom-2018-03-22


Jim

[Cow Poke]

It's not a goofy claim.

The way you initially put it certainly was.

[Cow Poke]

No - if you do that, we've already lost. They are teachers, they are not bodyguards. Most of them are completely and utterly unqualified for that role.

Jim

This is the initial claim I questioned. Perhaps Texas is exceptional, but many of our primary and secondary school teachers are quite capable of handling firearms, and being trained accordingly. Teachers are not stupid, nor do they conform to some old stereotype.

Further, BECAUSE teachers are motivated by love and concern for our students, it's entirely possible that that love would extend to protecting them from physical violence.

FOR THE RECORD, and for those who seem particularly adept at Olympic Conclusion Jumping.... it is not my first choice to support arming teachers. IF, however, a qualified teacher were to opt to be part of a security team above and beyond their primary duties, I think it's worth consideration.

The reason I posted this OP is because it makes FAR more sense to me to try to "work the problem" than (as I have already said) use this issue as an excuse to advance the cause of gun control.

[Sparko]

Kids and teachers brought guns to my high school. They even had sport shooting clubs and events. It wasn't unusual to see gun racks in the back of pickups in the school parking lot. With guns in them.
That was before the world went mad.

[Cow Poke]

Kids and teachers brought guns to my high school. They even had sport shooting clubs and events. It wasn't unusual to see gun racks in the back of pickups in the school parking lot. With guns in them.
That was before the world went mad.

EGGzackly.

[Mountain Man]

Even if we limit it to the teachers willing, we've still lost if that is the direction we go with this. And it's still an accident waiting to happen. If there is no other option that to put guns in schools, then they need to be in the hands of highly trained people whose sole function is to serve as guards and protectors for the children in the building, not the people who work 60 hours a week already to teach those children and who are grossly underpaid and undersupported as it is.

I suspect you're inventing an objection that isn't valid.

On the issue of teacher pay, I disagree that they are inadequately compensated for the job they do. In my state, teachers earn a salary that is right in line with what the average working man earns (average salary overall is $60k/year; average teacher salary is $60k/year), but that's neither here nor there. If a teacher wants to take it upon himself to be an armed first-responder in an emergency and has demonstrated the appropriate competence, then why shouldn't he be allowed?

[oxmixmudd]

I suspect you're inventing an objection that isn't valid.

On the issue of teacher pay, I disagree that they are inadequately compensated for the job they do. In my state, teachers earn a salary that is right in line with what the average working man earns (average salary overall is $60k/year; average teacher salary is $60k/year), but that's neither here nor there. If a teacher wants to take it upon himself to be an armed first-responder in an emergency and has demonstrated the appropriate competence, then why shouldn't he be allowed?

Some states do ok. Others do not. Most, IIRC, are underpaid. Especially in math and sciences where average salaries are pretty high in industry by comparison (which may well have a lot to do with the US poor performance in those subjects overall)

Too many kids around, too easy for a mistake to happen, or worse for a kid to get hold of a teachers gun.

It's just a bad idea, but you'll never agree with any point I make, so there is no point in going any further.

Jim

[Mountain Man]

Too many kids around, too easy for a mistake to happen, or worse for a kid to get hold of a teachers gun.

These are silly objections. You say you'd be fine with armed security, but someone could just as easily say, "Armed guards should not be permitted in schools because there are too many kids around, too easy for a mistake to happen, or worse for a kid to get hold of a security guard's gun."

[Sparko]

These are silly objections. You say you'd be fine with armed security, but someone could just as easily say, "Armed guards should not be permitted in schools because there are too many kids around, too easy for a mistake to happen, or worse for a kid to get hold of a security guard's gun."

On the whole, except in some rural areas of the nation where teachers are a bit more "redneck" I actually agree with Ox here. In the "damn yankee" parts of the country, where you have liberal, tree hugging teachers who create safe spaces for snowflakes and refuse to use personal pronouns, I wouldn't let them within a mile of a loaded gun.

[Zymologist]

On the whole, except in some rural areas of the nation where teachers are a bit more "redneck" I actually agree with Ox here. In the "damn yankee" parts of the country, where you have liberal, tree hugging teachers who create safe spaces for snowflakes and refuse to use personal pronouns, I wouldn't let them within a mile of a loaded gun.

From now on, instead of "red" and "blue" states, I'd like to see us refer to them as "redneck states" and "damn yankee states."

[Cow Poke]

On the whole, except in some rural areas of the nation where teachers are a bit more "redneck" I actually agree with Ox here. In the "damn yankee" parts of the country, where you have liberal, tree hugging teachers who create safe spaces for snowflakes and refuse to use personal pronouns, I wouldn't let them within a mile of a loaded gun.

That being said, perhaps that's why I'm not as dead set against it, since "even my florist has a gun!"

[Mountain Man]

On the whole, except in some rural areas of the nation where teachers are a bit more "redneck" I actually agree with Ox here. In the "damn yankee" parts of the country, where you have liberal, tree hugging teachers who create safe spaces for snowflakes and refuse to use personal pronouns, I wouldn't let them within a mile of a loaded gun.

Those are also the ones I would least expect to volunteer to carry a gun on school property and acquire the necessary training, so I don't see the problem.

[Cow Poke]

From now on, instead of "red" and "blue" states, I'd like to see us refer to them as "redneck states" and "damn yankee states."

I thought "damnyankee" was one word!

[Sparko]

That being said, perhaps that's why I'm not as dead set against it, since "even my florist has a gun!"

Well you ARE in Texas...