Homophobic Trump...

[seer]

President Bone Spurs for one. Although I doubt he'd pass the psychological requirements for anything, apart from maybe an asylum.

And transgenders have no business in the military.

[Starlight]

And transgenders have no business in the military.

They have as much or as little business as anyone else does. Your bigoted idiocy is tiresome. Go get a brain.

[seer]

They have as much or as little business as anyone else does. Your bigoted idiocy is tiresome. Go get a brain.

No they don't, they have psychological problems, there are all kinds of psychological problems that prevent one from entering the military. Why should trans get a pass? There is no rational reason why they should.

[Starlight]

they have psychological problems

No, they don't. You saying it doesn't make it true. Psychologists use international standards for diagnosing psychological problems, and being transgender is not a psychological problem in and of itself.

You can repeat "they have psychological problems" til the cows come home, but you'd just be lying to yourself and others. At a certain point I have to wonder if you have a psychological problem insofar as you seem rather delusional about this topic and in denial about reality. What is wrong with you that you can't accept reality and have to lie about it?

there are all kinds of psychological problems that prevent one from entering the military. Why should trans get a pass? There is no rational reason why they should.

Because they don't actually have a psychological problem by the objective standards that are applied? Because you are not a psychologist, and your inane repetition of falsehoods doesn't make those falsehoods true, and transgender people hence don't have psychological problems just cos you say they do? Because it's not rational for any military to base its policies on what Seer thinks as opposed to, y'know, what the actual psychology profession thinks?

[seer]

No, they don't. You saying it doesn't make it true. Psychologists use international standards for diagnosing psychological problems, and being transgender is not a psychological problem in and of itself.

If a man thinks he is a woman that by definition is a psychological problem, no different than a man who self-identifies as a cat. Both are divorced from reality. Just as your international standards are divorced from reality.

You can repeat "they have psychological problems" til the cows come home, but you'd just be lying to yourself and others. At a certain point I have to wonder if you have a psychological problem insofar as you seem rather delusional about this topic and in denial about reality. What is wrong with you that you can't accept reality and have to lie about it?

Ok, I'm denying reality but a man who feels he is a woman is in touch with reality?

Because they don't actually have a psychological problem by the objective standards that are applied? Because you are not a psychologist, and your inane repetition of falsehoods doesn't make those falsehoods true, and transgender people hence don't have psychological problems just cos you say they do? Because it's not rational for any military to base its policies on what Seer thinks as opposed to, y'know, what the actual psychology profession thinks?

Well the US Military disagrees:

Psychosexual Conditions

The causes for rejection for appointment, enlistment, and induction are transsexualism, exhibitionism, transvestitism, voyeurism, and other paraphilias.

[rogue06]

If a man thinks he is a woman that by definition is a psychological problem, no different than a man who self-identifies as a cat. Both are divorced from reality.

The difference in the former is that you now have a bunch of enablers

[Starlight]

If a man thinks he is a woman that by definition is a psychological problem, no different than a man who self-identifies as a cat.

Have you considered that your understanding of this might be pathetically ignorant, and that your summary here is just plain dumb and shows an incredible lack of knowledge and general ignorance on your part?

This issue has been discussed enough times in these forums that any ignorance at this point has to be 100% willful on your part.

You have no background, training or expertise in psychology. Yet someone you think it's a great idea to make false declarations about psychological truths and declare all the world's psychologists to be wrong, etc, and that you're somehow qualified to do this or are making interesting points. And you do this when you can't even explain the basics correctly. It's one of the worst instances of Dunning Krugers I've seen.

Just admit you're ignorant and stop making an ass of yourself.

[Tassman]

I have no idea what natural justice is. Something you just made up?

What is just made up, is 'justice' deriving from a make-believe God.

[seer]

Have you considered that your understanding of this might be pathetically ignorant, and that your summary here is just plain dumb and shows an incredible lack of knowledge and general ignorance on your part?

This issue has been discussed enough times in these forums that any ignorance at this point has to be 100% willful on your part.

You have no background, training or expertise in psychology. Yet someone you think it's a great idea to make false declarations about psychological truths and declare all the world's psychologists to be wrong, etc, and that you're somehow qualified to do this or are making interesting points. And you do this when you can't even explain the basics correctly. It's one of the worst instances of Dunning Krugers I've seen.

Just admit you're ignorant and stop making an ass of yourself.

Ignorant about what Star? I have read quite a bit about Gender dysphoria, that until recently it was labeled a disorder, until the PC police got their way. And it is not like psychology is an actual science. In this case we are speaking of feelings, which in kind is no different than species dysphoria. And those feeling are not in tune with their sexual biology. It is subjective, relying on first person subjective reporting. And that it seems pretty clear that gender dysphoria is not an immutable condition: http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01...y-grow_99.html

And Star, I doubt very much that you ever served in the military, so let me school you. No Marine or Solider would have any respect for a male NCO or Officer who dresses like a woman or is growing boobs.

[carpedm9587]

The fact is we don't need them, they offer nothing in the military sense, they are confused and mentally unstable. And the military is not a social experiment - it has one goal to fight and win wars.

I seem to remember the same (or similar) arguments being made about...

Blacks in the military...
Women serving in the military...
Gays serving in the military...
Immigrants serving in the military...

...and the list goes on.

Indeed, the original limitation was citizens and freemen. The pattern of history is pretty clear:

1) We want to serve...
2) Oh no - not you! You're <insert excuse here>
3) We want to serve...
4) Well...Ok...maybe...in these circumstances...
5) We want to serve...
6) Why the heck not!?

...and the list of people who can serve their country grows as the eyes and minds open. Transgender will just be the next in a long line to follow this course. It's just a matter of time. And it's a matter of some old, closed minds to die off and make room for the next generation - which suffers less from these phobias and biases.

[carpedm9587]

So when Trump does something that shows he is not a bigot, it means he is a bigot according to Starlight (and probably the rest of the liberals). I am not surprised in the least.

Well.. at least "probably the rest of the liberals" is an attempt at a slightly narrower brush...

[seer]

I seem to remember the same (or similar) arguments being made about...

Blacks in the military...
Women serving in the military...
Gays serving in the military...
Immigrants serving in the military...

...and the list goes on.

Indeed, the original limitation was citizens and freemen. The pattern of history is pretty clear:

1) We want to serve...
2) Oh no - not you! You're <insert excuse here>
3) We want to serve...
4) Well...Ok...maybe...in these circumstances...
5) We want to serve...
6) Why the heck not!?

...and the list of people who can serve their country grows as the eyes and minds open. Transgender will just be the next in a long line to follow this course. It's just a matter of time. And it's a matter of some old, closed minds to die off and make room for the next generation - which suffers less from these phobias and biases.

Except blacks, immigrants and women are not mentally disturbed...

[carpedm9587]

Except blacks, immigrants and women are not mentally disturbed...

And neither are trans people. Trans is not equal to gender dysphoria. If you read the literature on gender dysphoria, you will note that treatments include gender re-assignment and simple gender re-association. So they are no more "mentally ill" than most of the rest of us. Indeed, if you read the list of "mental disorders," we're all mentally disordered to one degree or another. Narcissism. Megalomania. Chronic lying. The list of ways we can be messed up to some degree is extensive. They are not all disqualifying from military service.

Indeed - you can even be president with some of them.

[seer]

And neither are trans people. Trans is not equal to gender dysphoria. If you read the literature on gender dysphoria, you will note that treatments include gender re-assignment and simple gender re-association. So they are no more "mentally ill" than most of the rest of us. Indeed, if you read the list of "mental disorders," we're all mentally disordered to one degree or another. Narcissism. Megalomania. Chronic lying. The list of ways we can be messed up to some degree is extensive. They are not all disqualifying from military service.

Indeed - you can even be president with some of them.

And many mental disorders will keep you out of the military. And if I follow your logic species dysphoria is not a problem either. Sorry, if you feel that you are a cat, or a biological male who feels he is a woman then there is something really wrong with you.

[Sparko]

But what about corporal Klinger?