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Kamela's dad is upset with her.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    I don't think candidates families are relevant in general. My concern about Kamala on the weed issue is that as a (not-progressive) prosecutor she was prosecuting people for weed usage at the same time as she was allegedly using it herself.

    Her rather 'tough on crime' prosecutorial record seems quite at odds with the progressive positions she claims to hold now. I haven't seen her speak to this apparent contradiction.
    If it is a contradiction. It seems obvious to me that Harris is misremembering something. Many of the right are assuming she's misremembering that she was in college and correctly remembering the music, presumably because it creates the "prosecuting while using" narrative. Many on the left are assuming she is misremembering the music and correctly remembering the college link, presumably because it avoids that issue. As far as I can tell, none of us can tell which one is the case. Choosing one is simply an exercise in choosing a narrative to support a pre-existing view.

    I think the more honest approach is "we don't know," and ask Ms. Harris.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 02-23-2019, 09:16 AM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      It seems obvious to me that Harris is misremembering something. Many of the right are assuming she's misremembering that she was in college and correctly remembering the music
      I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the facts that (a) her current political position and policy is to support marijuanana legalisation, (b) her history in her job as a federal prosecutor was to be 'tough on crime' and go after people for smoking marijuana...

      Harris opposed Proposition 19 in 2010, which would have legalized recreational marijuana. "Spending two decades in court rooms, Harris believes that drug selling harms communities," her campaign manager told local reporters at the time. "Harris supports the legal use of medicinal marijuana but does not support anything beyond that."

      But her opposition to marijuana didn't just inform her campaign policies. As California's attorney general, she also allowed the federal government to crack down on legal medicinal dispensaries. She refused to join other states' efforts to remove marijuana from the Drug Enforcement Administration's list of most dangerous substances, leading the marijuana lobby to back a pro-pot Republican candidate during her re-election.

      As much as Harris may try to bill herself as smart on crime rather than tough on crime, Harris increased convictions of drug dealers from 56 percent to 74 percent within just three years while she was a district attorney. Harris also tightened loopholes in bail and drug programs, resulting in more prison time for drug offenders.

      She's got to explain the U-turn her political policies have taken from her history of being tough on drug crime to her current position of live-and-let-live legalisation. If her recent claims are true that she herself was smoking marijuana at these earlier stages of her life, that would make it an appalling case of immense hypocrisy, but she still needs to explain her political U-turn.
      Last edited by Starlight; 02-23-2019, 07:00 PM.
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the facts that (a) her current political position and policy is to support marijuanana legalisation, (b) her history in her job as a federal prosecutor was to be 'tough on crime' and go after people for smoking marijuana...

        Harris opposed Proposition 19 in 2010, which would have legalized recreational marijuana. "Spending two decades in court rooms, Harris believes that drug selling harms communities," her campaign manager told local reporters at the time. "Harris supports the legal use of medicinal marijuana but does not support anything beyond that."

        But her opposition to marijuana didn't just inform her campaign policies. As California's attorney general, she also allowed the federal government to crack down on legal medicinal dispensaries. She refused to join other states' efforts to remove marijuana from the Drug Enforcement Administration's list of most dangerous substances, leading the marijuana lobby to back a pro-pot Republican candidate during her re-election.

        As much as Harris may try to bill herself as smart on crime rather than tough on crime, Harris increased convictions of drug dealers from 56 percent to 74 percent within just three years while she was a district attorney. Harris also tightened loopholes in bail and drug programs, resulting in more prison time for drug offenders.

        She's got to explain the U-turn her political policies have taken from her history of being tough on drug crime to her current position of live-and-let-live legalisation. If her recent claims are true that she herself was smoking marijuana at these earlier stages of her life, that would make it an appalling case of immense hypocrisy, but she still needs to explain her political U-turn.
        She also needs to explain her hypocrisy of smoking pot while listening to Tupac and Snoop Dogg (who didn't release albums until after she became a prosecutor) and her stereotyping Jamaicans as being a bunch of potheads in an attempt to explain her drug use.

        One of my friends was born in Jamaica and was friends with Peter Tosh's son Andrew in the 70s (he talks about how Peter used to pick them up from school and has shown pictures of them together). He with I can imagine many others of Jamaican descent is livid at Harris' mischaracterization.
        Last edited by rogue06; 02-24-2019, 05:11 AM.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the facts that (a) her current political position and policy is to support marijuanana legalisation, (b) her history in her job as a federal prosecutor was to be 'tough on crime' and go after people for smoking marijuana...

          Harris opposed Proposition 19 in 2010, which would have legalized recreational marijuana. "Spending two decades in court rooms, Harris believes that drug selling harms communities," her campaign manager told local reporters at the time. "Harris supports the legal use of medicinal marijuana but does not support anything beyond that."

          But her opposition to marijuana didn't just inform her campaign policies. As California's attorney general, she also allowed the federal government to crack down on legal medicinal dispensaries. She refused to join other states' efforts to remove marijuana from the Drug Enforcement Administration's list of most dangerous substances, leading the marijuana lobby to back a pro-pot Republican candidate during her re-election.

          As much as Harris may try to bill herself as smart on crime rather than tough on crime, Harris increased convictions of drug dealers from 56 percent to 74 percent within just three years while she was a district attorney. Harris also tightened loopholes in bail and drug programs, resulting in more prison time for drug offenders.

          She's got to explain the U-turn her political policies have taken from her history of being tough on drug crime to her current position of live-and-let-live legalisation. If her recent claims are true that she herself was smoking marijuana at these earlier stages of her life, that would make it an appalling case of immense hypocrisy, but she still needs to explain her political U-turn.
          I don't have a problem with people changing their stance. It's happened before - and it will happen again. I would like to know her thinking and the reasons for her shift, but I don't have a problem with the shift, per se. Now if the position were to start waffling back and forth, always reflecting the latest polls, I'd be concerned.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            She also needs to explain her hypocrisy of smoking pot while listening to Tupac and Snoop Dogg (who didn't release albums until after she became a prosecutor)
            See my previous post on this issue.

            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            and her stereotyping Jamaicans as being a bunch of potheads in an attempt to explain her drug use.

            One of my friends was born in Jamaica and was friends with Peter Tosh's son Andrew in the 70s (he talks about how Peter used to pick them up from school and has shown pictures of them together). He with I can imagine many others of Jamaican descent is livid at Harris' mischaracterization.
            Or maybe a simple statement is being blown up for political reasons? Rastafarianism is fairly big in Jamaica (or at least was when I was there) and Cannibis is considered a sacred herb in that religion. I lived three months on the island (Kingston and a small village called "Above Rocks") and pot was far more readily available and common than any place I have lived in the U.S. A reference to "Jamaican influences" does not have to mean "everyone in Jamaica is a drug addled pothead," unless someone twists it to mean that for political purposes. It can simply mean, "the more open attitude of the culture concerning the smoking of pot."

            I'm more curious why that influence did not seem to affect her when she was a prosecutor, but is affecting her now. THAT appears to be somewhat inconsistent.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              See my previous post on this issue.
              That didn't deal with her vigorously prosecuting people for smoking pot while simultaneously smoking pot herself.

              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              Or maybe a simple statement is being blown up for political reasons? Rastafarianism is fairly big in Jamaica (or at least was when I was there) and Cannibis is considered a sacred herb in that religion. I lived three months on the island (Kingston and a small village called "Above Rocks") and pot was far more readily available and common than any place I have lived in the U.S. A reference to "Jamaican influences" does not have to mean "everyone in Jamaica is a drug addled pothead," unless someone twists it to mean that for political purposes. It can simply mean, "the more open attitude of the culture concerning the smoking of pot."
              So I guess her father twisted it for political purposes

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                That didn't deal with her vigorously prosecuting people for smoking pot while simultaneously smoking pot herself.
                If she was. We don't know that she simultaneously was. As I noted - you have to assume her error of memory was about the college context rather than the songs heard to make that assumption. It could just as easily be the songs heard rather than the college context.

                Honestly, Rogue, if you were confronted with a memory error like this one, what is more likely: that you forget that your smoking was while you were in college, or that you forget which songs you were listening to while smoking?

                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                So I guess her father twisted it for political purposes
                A father who is as politically polarized as to come out against his own daughter publicly, raises some question marks in my mind. I have the same question marks about Mr. Conway.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  If she was. We don't know that she simultaneously was. As I noted - you have to assume her error of memory was about the college context rather than the songs heard to make that assumption. It could just as easily be the songs heard rather than the college context.
                  Yes. We do.

                  She claimed that she was smoking pot while listening to Tupac and Snoop Dogg. But neither one produced an album for her to listen to until after she became a prosecutor and was vigorously prosecuting people for smoking pot while simultaneously smoking pot herself.

                  Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  Honestly, Rogue, if you were confronted with a memory error like this one, what is more likely: that you forget that your smoking was while you were in college, or that you forget which songs you were listening to while smoking?
                  The music is what would establish the timeline. While she may have also been smoking in college it seems pretty clear that she continued after graduation.

                  Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  A father who is as politically polarized as to come out against his own daughter publicly, raises some question marks in my mind. I have the same question marks about Mr. Conway.
                  You are leaping to conclusions if you think that the father is politically motivated. Far more likely he is repulsed by her attempt to excuse her drug usage with her being Jamaican, which smears her entire family.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Yes. We do.

                    She claimed that she was smoking pot while listening to Tupac and Snoop Dogg. But neither one produced an album for her to listen to until after she became a prosecutor and was vigorously prosecuting people for smoking pot while simultaneously smoking pot herself.

                    The music is what would establish the timeline. While she may have also been smoking in college it seems pretty clear that she continued after graduation.
                    Or she remembered the college context, and misremembered the timing of the music she was listening to. You have decided which one is correct. I stay with "I don't know" because the fact is "I don't know." I can't see how you could possibly know, ergo you appear to be choosing an interpretation that aligns with your political narrative.

                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    You are leaping to conclusions if you think that the father is politically motivated.
                    I have jumped to no particular conclusion. I said I have question marks.

                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Far more likely he is repulsed by her attempt to excuse her drug usage with her being Jamaican, which smears her entire family.
                    Again, "smears her entire family" is an interpretation that aligns with your political views. The fact is that pot is regarded differently in Jamaica than it is in the U.S. Her statement merely reflected that reality. It didn't say "they are all doped up pot heads," unless, of course, you assume that anyone who smokes pot is a "doped up pot head." You seem to, again, be putting a political spin on her words.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      Or she remembered the college context, and misremembered the timing of the music she was listening to. You have decided which one is correct. I stay with "I don't know" because the fact is "I don't know." I can't see how you could possibly know, ergo you appear to be choosing an interpretation that aligns with your political narrative.
                      She distinctly remembers smoking pot while listening to Tupac and Snoop Dogg. That would be impossible when she was still in college. The logical answer would be that she was still smoking pot after her time in college. You want to give her a pass and offer weak excuses because of your political beliefs and seek to project it on others.

                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      I have jumped to no particular conclusion. I said I have question marks.


                      Again, "smears her entire family" is an interpretation that aligns with your political views. The fact is that pot is regarded differently in Jamaica than it is in the U.S. Her statement merely reflected that reality. It didn't say "they are all doped up pot heads," unless, of course, you assume that anyone who smokes pot is a "doped up pot head." You seem to, again, be putting a political spin on her words.
                      Read what her father said. Either he is pushing what you like to call "right wing memes" (your favorite excuse for hand waving away anything that doesn't fit into your political framework) or he is upset with her claim because it smears not only her family but Jamaicans in general.

                      I know it is anecdotal, but my Jamaican friend who likes Harris (our political views rarely jibe but we have interesting discussions that make each other think[1]) was quite upset with her excuse that she smoked pot because she's Jamaican seeing it as stereotyping Jamaicans as pot heads, so it hardly putting a negative political spin on it.





                      1. He was the one that caused me to give Harris the benefit of the doubt about Harris wrt Smollett:
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Kamala Harris after initially denouncing the attack as "an attempted modern day lynching" is now saying, "I’m not going to comment until I know the outcome of that investigation."

                      https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-day-lynching/
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      To be fair and grant a benefit of the doubt it could well be that after getting burned by jumping in like she did right after the story broke maybe she doesn't want to have the same thing happen a second time by jumping in again as this story breaks.

                      Of course the proof in the pudding will be if she refrains from doing the same thing the next time a similar story is first publicized/aired.

                      As I said, he likes Harris but thinks she smeared Jamaicans in general.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        She distinctly remembers smoking pot while listening to Tupac and Snoop Dogg. That would be impossible when she was still in college. The logical answer would be that she was still smoking pot after her time in college. You want to give her a pass and offer weak excuses because of your political beliefs and seek to project it on others.
                        And she distinctly remembers smoking when in college. They cannot happen together. So either she a) smoked in college and was confused about the music, b) smoked while a prosecutor and was confused about the college, or c) smoked throughout both periods.

                        How do you know a) is not the truth?

                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Read what her father said. Either he is pushing what you like to call "right wing memes" (your favorite excuse for hand waving away anything that doesn't fit into your political framework) or he is upset with her claim because it smears not only her family but Jamaicans in general.
                        Her father is a single person. He apparently reacted to her statement as you are reacting. I read the same statements and see nothing insulting about it to Jamaica or Jamaicans, and at no point do I see anything characterizing Jamaicans as "doped-up pot heads." That interpretation seems to have been added by her father and many on the right have latched on to it because it fits their narrative.

                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        I know it is anecdotal, but my Jamaican friend who likes Harris (our political views rarely jibe but we have interesting discussions that make each other think[1]) was quite upset with her excuse that she smoked pot because she's Jamaican seeing it as stereotyping Jamaicans as pot heads, so it hardly putting a negative political spin on it.
                        Ummm...Rogue...pointing to someone else who is putting a spin on her words doesn't change the fact that you did as well.

                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        1. He was the one that caused me to give Harris the benefit of the doubt about Harris wrt Smollett:

                        As I said, he likes Harris but thinks she smeared Jamaicans in general.
                        He's entitled to his opinion. What he thinks and feels and what she said are not necessarily linked. I've gone back over what she actually said. I've listened to the interview. I'm not finding what you and her dad and your friend are reading into it - and I too have some roots in Jamaica.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Pot is commonly consumed by methods other than smoking it. It can be eaten in cookies or put in beverages etc. I welcome you to eat cigarettes if you wish to do so.

                          I am against the idea of smoking pot just as I am smoking cigarettes, as smoking anything is bad for lung health. If I were to try marijuana I would be sure to try it in food rather than as a smoke, but that is at least partially due to me having a lung health issue.

                          I have been unable to find data confirming this. They appear to be about equally bad. People who smoke cigarettes commonly smoke more per day than people who smoke marijuana, but people who smoke marijuana tend to deliberately hold their breath after inhaling thus absorbing more into their lungs per smoke.
                          Also cigarettes usually have filters while joints do not.

                          Given cigarettes are legal to smoke it seems rational for marijuana to be legal to smoke too, since they are roughly comparable in harm done.
                          Yeah but you can't smoke hardly anywhere any longer and you can't argue that smoking pot is healthy. The Californians are such hypocrites. They are currently trying to ban/tax Sodas because they are unhealthy for you, while legalizing pot.

                          California lawmakers propose soda tax, banning cola at checkout areas

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Also cigarettes usually have filters while joints do not.



                            Yeah but you can't smoke hardly anywhere any longer and you can't argue that smoking pot is healthy. The Californians are such hypocrites. They are currently trying to ban/tax Sodas because they are unhealthy for you, while legalizing pot.

                            California lawmakers propose soda tax, banning cola at checkout areas
                            But pot, as has been noted, can be consumed in other ways besides smoking. It can be consumed, like alcohol. I don't see hypocrisy here. I see an effort to a) align pot with alcohol, b) create a new revenue source, c) bring an end to the black market in pot, d) reduce the flow of inmates into our prisons.

                            Personally, I am 100% for legalizing marijuana, for all of those reasons. I do think, however, that an age limit needs to be set that recognizes the impacts of pot on the developing brain.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              But pot, as has been noted, can be consumed in other ways besides smoking. It can be consumed, like alcohol. I don't see hypocrisy here. I see an effort to a) align pot with alcohol, b) create a new revenue source, c) bring an end to the black market in pot, d) reduce the flow of inmates into our prisons.

                              Personally, I am 100% for legalizing marijuana, for all of those reasons. I do think, however, that an age limit needs to be set that recognizes the impacts of pot on the developing brain.
                              I am for allowing people to do what they want. But apparently California is about forcing people to be healthy. If they could ban smoking they would. They are controlling access to unhealthy foods, like sugar, yet they allow access to mind-altering drugs. That is hypocritical.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                I am for allowing people to do what they want. But apparently California is about forcing people to be healthy. If they could ban smoking they would. They are controlling access to unhealthy foods, like sugar, yet they allow access to mind-altering drugs. That is hypocritical.
                                No - not really. And I don't see "forcing people to be healthy." I see disincentivizing (new word?) access to things we KNOW create health problems. The logic here is simple: when people consume or engage in things known to be harmful, it increases medical costs and drives up premiums for everyone. There is a social benefit to disincentivizing these things. Levying a tax on cigarettes, for example, creates a disincentive to smoke that has been shown to be effective, and creates a revenue stream that, if properly channeled, could deal with the increased health costs related to that habit. Unfortunately, the latter is not usually followed through on. The same is true for sugar.

                                If someone actually passes a law that it is illegal to consume sugar or smoke a cigarette, I will be right beside you fighting that law. But to create a law that encourages other behavior and creates a funding source to pay for the associated costs - no problem with me whatsoever. Those who create the cost should be paying the cost, IMO. That is why I think we should have high taxes on fossil fuels which can be used to invest in clean energy or CO2 capture systems/programs. Those who create the cost - should pay the cost.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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