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An Experiment in Media Bias

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  • An Experiment in Media Bias

    So, I saw several headlines pop up today related to the interview Feinstein gave to some kids. It was a miserable interview and she looked like a pedantic, look down my nose at kids, moment. Definitely a bad moment for her, and she deserves all of the media body slams she gets.

    But then I started to read the headlines, and found myself reacting to the spin given by different media outlets. So here is a little experiment. I'm going to put a list of headlines below. I'd be curious if you can associate the media outlet with the correct headline without looking them up. I'm finding myself wonder if my reaction is due to a pre-existing bias about how media organizations "spin" their stories, or if the spin is actually real. The media outlets are USA Today, MSNBC, The Guardian, Fox News, CNN (2 of them), NYT, and CBS.
    1. Children Confront Senator Dianne Feinstein over Green New Deal
    2. Kids Confront Sen. Dianne Feinstein Over Green New Deal
    3. Dianne Feinstein scolds kids who pushed her to back Green New Deal: 'I know what I'm doing'
    4. Feinstein Lectures Children Who Want Green New Deal, Portraying it as Untenable
    5. Grilled by children, Feinstein tries to teach lesson in politics
    6. I know what I’m doing’: Sen. Feinstein argues with kids on climate bill
    7. Watch Feinstein's tense exchange with children over climate
    8. Dianne Feinstein rebuffs young climate activists' calls for Green New Deal


    So are these headlines substantively different? Can you pick out the far left (CNN, MSNBC) from the far right (Fox News)?

    I'm curious to know. No fair peeking!
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 02-23-2019, 08:17 AM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    It's peeking, not peaking.

    (brought to you by your Grammar Nazi replacement service)
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
      It's peeking, not peaking.

      (brought to you by your Grammar Nazi replacement service)
      Thanks! Fixed.

      I can't believe I did that...
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, I just watched the video. She could have handled it better, but I don't really blame her for the way the bucked at the obvious setup and ambush by some group that scared some kids into supporting a terrible plan and thinking that Feinstein wouldn't be able to say no because they were kids.

        She actually earned some respect from me.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Well, I just watched the video. She could have handled it better, but I don't really blame her for the way the bucked at the obvious setup and ambush by some group that scared some kids into supporting a terrible plan and thinking that Feinstein wouldn't be able to say no because they were kids.

          She actually earned some respect from me.
          Interesting. I applaud her political position - but her handling of the kids was horrendous. She came across as the narrow-minded granny scolding the grand kids (probably because she was). And her "I know better" position was a political disaster.

          But the question was about the media coverage. Can you pick out the Fox and CNN headlines?
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #6
            I neither watched the video nor paid attention to the headlines.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #7
              The headlines all seem to say pretty much the same thing, so I have no idea which came from a liberal source, and which from a conservative one.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #8
                The first two are virtually identical
                1. Children Confront Senator Dianne Feinstein over Green New Deal: NYT or CNN
                2. Kids Confront Sen. Dianne Feinstein Over Green New Deal: NYT or CNN
                3. Dianne Feinstein scolds kids who pushed her to back Green New Deal: 'I know what I'm doing': Fox
                4. Feinstein Lectures Children Who Want Green New Deal, Portraying it as Untenable: CBS
                5. Grilled by children, Feinstein tries to teach lesson in politics: MSNBC
                6. I know what I’m doing’: Sen. Feinstein argues with kids on climate bill: USA Today
                7. Watch Feinstein's tense exchange with children over climate:CNN
                8. Dianne Feinstein rebuffs young climate activists' calls for Green New Deal: Guardian


                All the above are SWAGs

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  One of the ways Feinstein mocked these people was to say that the 16 year old girl she was talking to couldn't have voted for her. She particularly doesn't care about them because she'll be dead from old age before they can vote for her. As I explained with regard to why Oregon is right to lower the voting age to 16, politicians strongly respond to incentives, and *who* their voters are is a big incentive. Feinstein is showing precisely that response here: Her view is that they are not her voters and hence she could hardly care less about them. If there were no lower age limit on voting and a politically interested 12 year old could vote if they wanted, she would not be so contemptuous of and dismissive towards these kids.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    She actually earned some respect from me.
                    It's surprising to me the extent to which various conservative commentators have endorsed and supported her nastiness toward these kids. I guess it shouldn't be, because love of authoritarianism and nastiness is what I've come to expect from US conservatives, but it still kinda shocks me that they could love it even toward kids.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      The media outlets are USA Today, MSNBC, The Guardian, Fox News, CNN (2 of them), NYT, and CBS.
                      1. Children Confront Senator Dianne Feinstein over Green New Deal
                      2. Kids Confront Sen. Dianne Feinstein Over Green New Deal
                      3. Dianne Feinstein scolds kids who pushed her to back Green New Deal: 'I know what I'm doing'
                      4. Feinstein Lectures Children Who Want Green New Deal, Portraying it as Untenable
                      5. Grilled by children, Feinstein tries to teach lesson in politics
                      6. I know what I’m doing’: Sen. Feinstein argues with kids on climate bill
                      7. Watch Feinstein's tense exchange with children over climate
                      8. Dianne Feinstein rebuffs young climate activists' calls for Green New Deal


                      So are these headlines substantively different? Can you pick out the far left (CNN, MSNBC) from the far right (Fox News)?
                      CNN is far left?

                      The trouble with this story as a media yard-stick is there are multiple corporate biases operating. There is the anti-Progressive bias, where the millionaires paid by billionaires on corporate media loathe anything that is progressive or would upset their nice fat paychecks. There is the pro-establishment bias, where the anchors and media owners love hob-nobbing at their cocktail parties with the elites and love to be able to name-drop and say things "oh, I was chatting with Dianne Feinstein the other day, and she said to me...", and equally their network policy is to appease politicians currently in power so as to be able to get interviews and leaks in future from those politicians. Then there is the anti-Climate-Change bias from the right-wing end of the media spectrum. And the anti-Democrat bias from the right-wing. Some of these tendencies interact - for example left wing sources are more likely to care about Climate Change in the first place, but MSM sources are going to want to be nice to Feinstein.

                      But let's group the headlines:
                      Children Confront Senator Dianne Feinstein over Green New Deal
                      Kids Confront Sen. Dianne Feinstein Over Green New Deal
                      Dianne Feinstein rebuffs young climate activists' calls for Green New Deal
                      These are similar, with the first 2 very similar which could both be read as implying no hostile response - children walking up to Feinstein with a poster and being warmly embraced by her could generate those headlines. It's how Feinstein's own PR people would want to write up the negative exchange - so as to hide her negativity. So I'd want to assign this to a MSM outlet desperate to suck up to the powerful. Candidates would thus be, CNN, MSNBC, NYT, or possibly CBS which I'm not personally very familiar with.

                      The 3rd is slightly more informative as it implies a negative response from Feinstein, but it's still worded pretty mealy mouthed. Probably also from one of the above outlets.

                      And, on reflection, I'm tempted to include "Grilled by children, Feinstein tries to teach lesson in politics" in with the above 3. It looks like it might have the perspective of "Knowledgeable Feinstein schools ignorant children who foolishly refuse to listen to her wisdom" which is the disgustingly condescending we-the-establishment-know-best perspective. So probably one of the above listed outlets again.

                      Dianne Feinstein scolds kids who pushed her to back Green New Deal: 'I know what I'm doing'
                      I know what I’m doing’: Sen. Feinstein argues with kids on climate bill
                      These are similar and indicate a certain level of antipathy toward Feinstein on the part of the media outlet. Nothing in the headline implies the outlet is anti the Green New Deal. So here we are probably looking at more progressive outlets, which are supportive of the Green New Deal, and skeptical of Feinstein's lack of progressivism and her pro-establishment stances. From your list, that means it's USA Today and the Guardian, with an outside chance of being MSNBC. Again, I don't know CBS well so this could be them I guess.

                      Feinstein Lectures Children Who Want Green New Deal, Portraying it as Untenable
                      Watch Feinstein's tense exchange with children over climate
                      The first is anti-Feinstein, and possibly anti the Green New Deal (or possibly pro the Green New Deal, and even more anti-Feinstein by portraying her opposition to it). The second is just anti-Feinstein. So Fox News is an obvious candidate for either of these two, probably the first one. The other must be a progressive outlet, so USA Today or the Guardian probably.

                      What do I win?
                      Interesting exercise. I've never done anything like it before.
                      Last edited by Starlight; 02-23-2019, 06:48 PM.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        CNN is far left?
                        this from the guy who says Stalin is a right winger even though he is on the Left side of the political compass just because he is on the authoritarian top of the left side of the political compass. Sorry Starlight just because he lands on the top of the compass does not make him a right winger it makes him a left wing authoritarian. Starlight serious question here who do you consider to be left of YOU in their political view.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would be interested in the results. However, I don't believe the headlines mean very much in terms of bias. I'd be more curious to see an analysis done on the articles themselves(though I know that'd be asking a lot): which sources emphasize which parts of the story, how they're worded, who they chose to interview, etc. There was a while ago I did this myself on a story that was rather insignificant, and the disparity was incredible. Not always between one source and the next(many of them were copied word-for-word), but taking the most extreme endpoints, you get an entirely different impression of what happened. There is a bias in media, but the problem is not which political position is more prominent. It's that we can choose which facts we follow, and that those facts may not necessarily line up with reality.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Thanks! Fixed.

                            I can't believe I did that...
                            We're all human encouraging the pounce of the nervous Grammar Nazis

                            Great Question!
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                              Starlight serious question here who do you consider to be left of YOU in their political view.
                              Noam Chomsky, Cornel West, Jesus Christ.

                              A common left-right scale people use is how 'big' the government should be where in extreme communism the government runs 100% of the economy and the private sector 0%, and in extreme libertarianism the government runs 0% of the economy and the private sector 100%. On that scale, I am a perfect centrist: I think that data shows that it is optimal for government spending to be about 50% of GDP with the other 50% being private industry - e.g. Denmark is the happiest country and has a level of government spending near to 50% of GDP.

                              Personally, I don't think size of government is a particularly interesting metric to pay attention to, and instead I tend to focus my political analysis on what I call "distribution of power". i.e. to what extent is economic power and the ability to set social policy consolidated in the hands of a few versus distributed to many people? On that analysis, the right-wing is associated with consolidation of power among the elites while the left-wing is associated with distribution of power as much as possible among the people. On that metric, I try to be as left-wing as possible and if it is at all possible to be too left-wing I haven't encountered it.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment

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