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Thread: Quran & islam's hate speech

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    tWebber
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    Quran & islam's hate speech

    The Qur'anic Attitude towards those who do not believe its message is crass, hateful and bigoted to say the least..

    The Qur'an has a wide range of imagery and insults for those who refuse to believe in Islam. They are likened to cattle (camels, cows, sheep), a goat-herd, dogs, asses, etc. (cf. Surah 25:44, 2:171, 7:175-177, 62:5), but in some passages it is much worse than that:

    According to the Koran, a non-Muslim is less than nothing: "To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who DO NOT BELIEVE and remain unbelievers" (Sura 8:55). That is why it is necessary to Islamize them by force and by humiliation. And those who resist Islam and its founder must be chastised, according to the Koran: "Here is the fate of those who fight Allah and his messenger: you will put them to death or you will make them suffer the torture of the cross; you will cut their hands and their feet alternately. They will be driven from the country" (Sura 5:33).

    Mind you, Q8/55 vilifies and attacks non muslims just for NOT BELIEVING in islam or its inventor, muhammad! Not because these people were literally fighting muslims or islam. There are numerous other verses like this one, too!

    And, since the Muslims are realists, they take into account circumstances and make, accordingly, temporary peace or war: "Do not display cowardice, and DO NOT CALL THE INFIDELS TO PEACE WHEN YOU ARE SUPERIOR TO THEM." (Sura 47:35).

    In a word, as the Koran is the word of Allah for all Muslims, it holds for all times and all peoples until the end of the world. It must be applied according to the indications that Allah himself gives to his believers. This logically explains what is today happening in the Sudan, in Algeria, and in numerous Islamic countries. To idealize Islam is the greatest wrong that one can do to the Muslims themselves.

    Many muslims, bahais and their derivatives hide behind exaggerated "hate speech" victimhood to avoid the disclosure to the rabid hate quran expressed against non muslims, Christians abd Jews. This is so shameful and hypocritical.

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    According to the values cherished by the "West" is that of "freedom" and among them is the concept of Freedom of speech. Some say hate speech must be protected as part of " Freedom of speech". Others have real worries that the dehumanization that is legitimized by irresponsible hate speech leads to genocide.

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/11/30...s-muslim-hate/
    "Social scientists agree that attacks on an entire class of people — whether identified by their race, religion, education, or any other distinguishing characteristic — do not happen spontaneously. First the mob has to be primed. The targeted group has to be demonized through a campaign of hateful misinformation, always presented as legitimate information by people in positions of trust. Then the signal for violence falls on ready ears.
    It happened this way in Germany, Cambodia, Rwanda, and countless other sites of genocide, ethnic cleansing, and mass persecution. The pamphlets, megaphones, and radio broadcasts came before the pogroms, murders, and forced relocations."

    Here is another opinion/reflection on the balance between criticism and hate speech:- (by Cherian George)
    Hate speech against religious groups is a particularly complex problem, because religious communities define themselves by a set of beliefs and beliefs are fair game for criticism and insult. There is therefore a tension — some would say a fatal contradiction — between the need to protect against incitement while allowing beliefs to be pilloried.

    Some of the most fraught debates over offensive speech are due to this tension. When cartoons or videos depict Islam as a murderous religion, governments and internet intermediaries declare that they cannot legitimately restrict such expression, because an attack on a belief system does not technically amount to a call to arms against its believers. Many at the receiving end, however, maintain that such denigration of their religion is part of a broad ideological assault that makes it harder for them to live as equals in their society.

    In any case, a legal right to insult religions does not preclude journalists deciding, on ethical grounds, to refrain from wanton attacks on values and beliefs. Political cartoonist Garry Trudeau suggests media should take people’s power into account when making such decisions. Reflecting on the controversy over satirical depictions of the Prophet Mohammed in Europe, Trudeau said in an essay in The Atlantic: “Traditionally, satire has comforted the afflicted while afflicting the comfortable. Satire punches up against authority of all kinds, the little guy against the powerful … Ridiculing the non-privileged is almost never funny — it’s just mean.”

    While journalists may agree in principle, however, there would still be disagreements over implementation. Muslim immigrants in Europe are a vulnerable minority when viewed at the national level, but they are simultaneously members of a world religion with tremendous power to shape world affairs. Media’s ethical responses will differ depending on which of these two frames apply.

    Extreme nationalism hatred is often overlooked in discussions of hate speech, perhaps because intense and exclusive loyalty to the nation — patriotism — tends to be seen as a virtue in a way that similar sentiments about race or religion are not. Yet, nationalistic hate speech in East Asia, for example, poses a threat to world peace. China’s state-run media, aided by online media, regularly incite hatred against Japan with alarming headlines and half-truths. Right-wing media in Japan reciprocate with China-bashing, although their influence is diluted by Japan’s more open media environment.
    https://ethicaljournalismnetwork.org...ws/hate-speech

    What is your position on hate speech?

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    Unless sensible, factual and convincing answers can be given to my post above, it is crystal clear that hate speech and vilification of non muslims are part and parcel of the quran and islam.

    In verses / ayats like these, among many more :-

    Surah 25:44, 2:171, 7:175-177, 62:5.

    Surah 9:5, 9:29 & 8:55 etc..

    It is inherent and in the DNA of islam & the Koran, that much is clear.

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    Like these -


    The Qur'an has a wide range of imagery and insults for those who refuse to believe in Islam. They are likened to cattle (camels, cows, sheep), a goat-herd, dogs, asses, etc. (cf. Surah 25:44, 2:171, 7:175-177, 62:5).

    Why the need to vilify the unbelievers of islam like this?

    "To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who DO NOT BELIEVE and remain unbelievers" - Sura 8:55..

    "Do not display cowardice, and DO NOT CALL THE INFIDELS TO PEACE WHEN YOU ARE SUPERIOR TO THEM." Sura 47:35..

    Sura 9:5 & 9:29 too!

    Pls just stick to these verses only and explain their venom to us, siam?! No need to go all over the place, like pulling wool over our eyes to make us forget these are hate speech verses because the quran itself commands & declares them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    According to the values cherished by the "West" is that of "freedom" and among them is the concept of Freedom of speech. Some say hate speech must be protected as part of " Freedom of speech". Others have real worries that the dehumanization that is legitimized by irresponsible hate speech leads to genocide.

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/11/30...s-muslim-hate/
    "Social scientists agree that attacks on an entire class of people — whether identified by their race, religion, education, or any other distinguishing characteristic — do not happen spontaneously. First the mob has to be primed. The targeted group has to be demonized through a campaign of hateful misinformation, always presented as legitimate information by people in positions of trust. Then the signal for violence falls on ready ears.
    It happened this way in Germany, Cambodia, Rwanda, and countless other sites of genocide, ethnic cleansing, and mass persecution. The pamphlets, megaphones, and radio broadcasts came before the pogroms, murders, and forced relocations."

    Here is another opinion/reflection on the balance between criticism and hate speech:- (by Cherian George)
    Hate speech against religious groups is a particularly complex problem, because religious communities define themselves by a set of beliefs and beliefs are fair game for criticism and insult. There is therefore a tension — some would say a fatal contradiction — between the need to protect against incitement while allowing beliefs to be pilloried.

    Some of the most fraught debates over offensive speech are due to this tension. When cartoons or videos depict Islam as a murderous religion, governments and internet intermediaries declare that they cannot legitimately restrict such expression, because an attack on a belief system does not technically amount to a call to arms against its believers. Many at the receiving end, however, maintain that such denigration of their religion is part of a broad ideological assault that makes it harder for them to live as equals in their society.

    In any case, a legal right to insult religions does not preclude journalists deciding, on ethical grounds, to refrain from wanton attacks on values and beliefs. Political cartoonist Garry Trudeau suggests media should take people’s power into account when making such decisions. Reflecting on the controversy over satirical depictions of the Prophet Mohammed in Europe, Trudeau said in an essay in The Atlantic: “Traditionally, satire has comforted the afflicted while afflicting the comfortable. Satire punches up against authority of all kinds, the little guy against the powerful … Ridiculing the non-privileged is almost never funny — it’s just mean.”

    While journalists may agree in principle, however, there would still be disagreements over implementation. Muslim immigrants in Europe are a vulnerable minority when viewed at the national level, but they are simultaneously members of a world religion with tremendous power to shape world affairs. Media’s ethical responses will differ depending on which of these two frames apply.

    Extreme nationalism hatred is often overlooked in discussions of hate speech, perhaps because intense and exclusive loyalty to the nation — patriotism — tends to be seen as a virtue in a way that similar sentiments about race or religion are not. Yet, nationalistic hate speech in East Asia, for example, poses a threat to world peace. China’s state-run media, aided by online media, regularly incite hatred against Japan with alarming headlines and half-truths. Right-wing media in Japan reciprocate with China-bashing, although their influence is diluted by Japan’s more open media environment.
    https://ethicaljournalismnetwork.org...ws/hate-speech

    What is your position on hate speech?
    This seems off topic. You should start your own thread if you want to talk about something else.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    According to the values cherished by the "West" is that of "freedom" and among them is the concept of Freedom of speech. Some say hate speech must be protected as part of " Freedom of speech". Others have real worries that the dehumanization that is legitimized by irresponsible hate speech leads to genocide.

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/11/30...s-muslim-hate/
    "Social scientists agree that attacks on an entire class of people — whether identified by their race, religion, education, or any other distinguishing characteristic — do not happen spontaneously. First the mob has to be primed. The targeted group has to be demonized through a campaign of hateful misinformation, always presented as legitimate information by people in positions of trust. Then the signal for violence falls on ready ears.
    It happened this way in Germany, Cambodia, Rwanda, and countless other sites of genocide, ethnic cleansing, and mass persecution. The pamphlets, megaphones, and radio broadcasts came before the pogroms, murders, and forced relocations."

    Here is another opinion/reflection on the balance between criticism and hate speech:- (by Cherian George)
    Hate speech against religious groups is a particularly complex problem, because religious communities define themselves by a set of beliefs and beliefs are fair game for criticism and insult. There is therefore a tension — some would say a fatal contradiction — between the need to protect against incitement while allowing beliefs to be pilloried.

    Some of the most fraught debates over offensive speech are due to this tension. When cartoons or videos depict Islam as a murderous religion, governments and internet intermediaries declare that they cannot legitimately restrict such expression, because an attack on a belief system does not technically amount to a call to arms against its believers. Many at the receiving end, however, maintain that such denigration of their religion is part of a broad ideological assault that makes it harder for them to live as equals in their society.

    In any case, a legal right to insult religions does not preclude journalists deciding, on ethical grounds, to refrain from wanton attacks on values and beliefs. Political cartoonist Garry Trudeau suggests media should take people’s power into account when making such decisions. Reflecting on the controversy over satirical depictions of the Prophet Mohammed in Europe, Trudeau said in an essay in The Atlantic: “Traditionally, satire has comforted the afflicted while afflicting the comfortable. Satire punches up against authority of all kinds, the little guy against the powerful … Ridiculing the non-privileged is almost never funny — it’s just mean.”

    While journalists may agree in principle, however, there would still be disagreements over implementation. Muslim immigrants in Europe are a vulnerable minority when viewed at the national level, but they are simultaneously members of a world religion with tremendous power to shape world affairs. Media’s ethical responses will differ depending on which of these two frames apply.

    Extreme nationalism hatred is often overlooked in discussions of hate speech, perhaps because intense and exclusive loyalty to the nation — patriotism — tends to be seen as a virtue in a way that similar sentiments about race or religion are not. Yet, nationalistic hate speech in East Asia, for example, poses a threat to world peace. China’s state-run media, aided by online media, regularly incite hatred against Japan with alarming headlines and half-truths. Right-wing media in Japan reciprocate with China-bashing, although their influence is diluted by Japan’s more open media environment.
    https://ethicaljournalismnetwork.org...ws/hate-speech

    What is your position on hate speech?
    This diversionary tactic is incredibly transparent - but I can understand why you would want to avoid DZ's inquiries.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  8. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  9. #8
    tWebber
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    The Quran advices humanity on many subjects including the principles of speech---its limits and range.
    Surah 8---mentioned above---deals with wartime issues arising from the Battle of Badr. There are other more relevant Quranic verses that deal with the topic of speech.

    Surah 49 has some advice about speech. It starts with advising people to not speak loudly but to lower their voices ---the point of speech is to listen and discuss rather than to show off or create a commotion...
    Surah 49 verse 2-4 (Yusuf ali)
    2. O those who believe, raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak loudly to him as you may with another, lest your deeds become vain and you perceive not.
    3. Those that lower their voice in the presence of God's messenger, their hearts God has tested for piety: for them is forgiveness and great reward.
    4. Those who shout out to you from the inner apartments, most of them lack understanding
    5. If only they had patience until you could come out to them, it would be best for them. But God is oft forgiving, most merciful.
    ---the above verses dealt with individual manners and etiquette of speech---next verses deal with etiquette and principles of group discussion.
    verses 6-8
    6. O those who believe, if a sinner comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth lest you harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what you have done.
    ---It is important to get the facts right in any discussion---to make judgements or policies, or take actions based on inaccurate or false information can cause harm and injustice.

    verses 9 and 10 deal with dispute resolution (group)--and urges people towards peace and reconciliation unless an injustice occurs---if an aggression occurs then fighting is permitted to restore justice and peace.
    9. If 2 parties among the believers fall into a fight, make peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against another then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of God: but if it complies, then make peace between them with justice and b fair. For God loves those who are fair and just.
    10. The believers are but a single brotherhood: so make peace and reconciliation between your two contending brothers and have awe of God that you may receive mercy.
    ---verses 11 to 13 are general rules of etiquette regarding issues of speech and conduct ...such as contempt, rumors/gossip, insults and slander, suspicions and spying/invasion of privacy...etc...
    11. O you who believe, let not some men among you laugh at others, it may be the latter are better than the former, nor let some women laugh at others, it may be the latter are better than the former, nor defame, nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other with offensive names, ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: and those who do not desist are doing wrong.
    12. O you who believe, Avoid suspicion for suspicion in some cases is a sin: and spy not on one another nor speak ill of each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dad brother? no you would abhor it...but have awe of God for God is oft-forgiving, most merciful
    13. O mankind. We created you from a single pair of male and female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know each other (not so you can despise each other) Surely the most honored of you in the sight of God is the most righteous of you and God has full knowledge and is well acquainted with all things.

    verse 13 is important because it points to the guiding principle upon which Islamic ethics/morals are based---which is that all humanity is a creation of the ONE God and therefore all are brothers to one another and equal in the eyes of God. (Tawheed) Our diversity is a blessing bestowed by God so we can get to know each other and grow in our compassion and mercy. It is a no brainer to like someone just like us---it takes more maturity, compassion and understanding to extend grace to those who are very different from us.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    The Quran advices humanity on many subjects including the principles of speech---its limits and range.
    Surah 8---mentioned above---deals with wartime issues arising from the Battle of Badr. There are other more relevant Quranic verses that deal with the topic of speech.

    Surah 49 has some advice about speech. It starts with advising people to not speak loudly but to lower their voices ---the point of speech is to listen and discuss rather than to show off or create a commotion...
    Surah 49 verse 2-4 (Yusuf ali)
    2. O those who believe, raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak loudly to him as you may with another, lest your deeds become vain and you perceive not.
    3. Those that lower their voice in the presence of God's messenger, their hearts God has tested for piety: for them is forgiveness and great reward.
    4. Those who shout out to you from the inner apartments, most of them lack understanding
    5. If only they had patience until you could come out to them, it would be best for them. But God is oft forgiving, most merciful.
    ---the above verses dealt with individual manners and etiquette of speech---next verses deal with etiquette and principles of group discussion.
    verses 6-8
    6. O those who believe, if a sinner comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth lest you harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what you have done.
    ---It is important to get the facts right in any discussion---to make judgements or policies, or take actions based on inaccurate or false information can cause harm and injustice.

    verses 9 and 10 deal with dispute resolution (group)--and urges people towards peace and reconciliation unless an injustice occurs---if an aggression occurs then fighting is permitted to restore justice and peace.
    9. If 2 parties among the believers fall into a fight, make peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against another then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of God: but if it complies, then make peace between them with justice and b fair. For God loves those who are fair and just.
    10. The believers are but a single brotherhood: so make peace and reconciliation between your two contending brothers and have awe of God that you may receive mercy.
    ---verses 11 to 13 are general rules of etiquette regarding issues of speech and conduct ...such as contempt, rumors/gossip, insults and slander, suspicions and spying/invasion of privacy...etc...
    11. O you who believe, let not some men among you laugh at others, it may be the latter are better than the former, nor let some women laugh at others, it may be the latter are better than the former, nor defame, nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other with offensive names, ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: and those who do not desist are doing wrong.
    12. O you who believe, Avoid suspicion for suspicion in some cases is a sin: and spy not on one another nor speak ill of each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dad brother? no you would abhor it...but have awe of God for God is oft-forgiving, most merciful
    13. O mankind. We created you from a single pair of male and female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know each other (not so you can despise each other) Surely the most honored of you in the sight of God is the most righteous of you and God has full knowledge and is well acquainted with all things.

    verse 13 is important because it points to the guiding principle upon which Islamic ethics/morals are based---which is that all humanity is a creation of the ONE God and therefore all are brothers to one another and equal in the eyes of God. (Tawheed) Our diversity is a blessing bestowed by God so we can get to know each other and grow in our compassion and mercy. It is a no brainer to like someone just like us---it takes more maturity, compassion and understanding to extend grace to those who are very different from us.
    Please stay on topic Siam. Or start your own thread.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    The Quran advices humanity on many subjects including the principles of speech---its limits and range.
    Surah 8---mentioned above---deals with wartime issues arising from the Battle of Badr. There are other more relevant Quranic verses that deal with the topic of speech.

    Surah 49 has some advice about speech. It starts with advising people to not speak loudly but to lower their voices ---the point of speech is to listen and discuss rather than to show off or create a commotion...
    Surah 49 verse 2-4 (Yusuf ali)
    2. O those who believe, raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak loudly to him as you may with another, lest your deeds become vain and you perceive not.
    3. Those that lower their voice in the presence of God's messenger, their hearts God has tested for piety: for them is forgiveness and great reward.
    4. Those who shout out to you from the inner apartments, most of them lack understanding
    5. If only they had patience until you could come out to them, it would be best for them. But God is oft forgiving, most merciful.
    ---the above verses dealt with individual manners and etiquette of speech---next verses deal with etiquette and principles of group discussion.
    verses 6-8
    6. O those who believe, if a sinner comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth lest you harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what you have done.
    ---It is important to get the facts right in any discussion---to make judgements or policies, or take actions based on inaccurate or false information can cause harm and injustice.

    verses 9 and 10 deal with dispute resolution (group)--and urges people towards peace and reconciliation unless an injustice occurs---if an aggression occurs then fighting is permitted to restore justice and peace.
    9. If 2 parties among the believers fall into a fight, make peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against another then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of God: but if it complies, then make peace between them with justice and b fair. For God loves those who are fair and just.
    10. The believers are but a single brotherhood: so make peace and reconciliation between your two contending brothers and have awe of God that you may receive mercy.
    ---verses 11 to 13 are general rules of etiquette regarding issues of speech and conduct ...such as contempt, rumors/gossip, insults and slander, suspicions and spying/invasion of privacy...etc...
    11. O you who believe, let not some men among you laugh at others, it may be the latter are better than the former, nor let some women laugh at others, it may be the latter are better than the former, nor defame, nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other with offensive names, ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: and those who do not desist are doing wrong.
    12. O you who believe, Avoid suspicion for suspicion in some cases is a sin: and spy not on one another nor speak ill of each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dad brother? no you would abhor it...but have awe of God for God is oft-forgiving, most merciful
    13. O mankind. We created you from a single pair of male and female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know each other (not so you can despise each other) Surely the most honored of you in the sight of God is the most righteous of you and God has full knowledge and is well acquainted with all things.

    verse 13 is important because it points to the guiding principle upon which Islamic ethics/morals are based---which is that all humanity is a creation of the ONE God and therefore all are brothers to one another and equal in the eyes of God. (Tawheed) Our diversity is a blessing bestowed by God so we can get to know each other and grow in our compassion and mercy. It is a no brainer to like someone just like us---it takes more maturity, compassion and understanding to extend grace to those who are very different from us.
    Again, a whole lot of babble that has NOTHING to do with the topic.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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