Transgender sprinters finish 1st, 2nd at Connecticut girls indoor track championships

[seer]

And with that we have witnessed the death knell of girls and women's sports.

In virtually every field they've competed in the transgendered participants have not only won they shattered old records.

Just proves that Biden and the left are wicked - down to the bone...

[rogue06]

Just proves that Biden and the left are wicked - down to the bone...

A legitimate question is whether or not old Joe is even aware of what he signed. He might have thought it was a birthday card for a grandniece or grandnephew

[seer]

A legitimate question is whether or not old Joe is even aware of what he signed. He might have thought it was a birthday card for a grandniece or grandnephew

ouch...

[Cow Poke]

A legitimate question is whether or not old Joe is even aware of what he signed. He might have thought it was a birthday card for a grandniece or grandnephew

And so it begins.

[Zara]

And so it begins.

Your new regiment of anti-psychotics arrived?

I personally don't think transgender men to women should be allowed to take part in professional sport where there is differentiation between men and women. There's a world of possibility out there, this just shouldn't be one of them for obvious reasons.

[Cow Poke]

Your new regiment of anti-psychotics arrived?

I personally don't think transgender men to women should be allowed to take part in professional sport. There's a world of possibility out there, this just shouldn't be one of them for obvious reasons.

Thank you for this lovely little ball of poo.

[Mountain Man]

There's a world of possibility out there, this just shouldn't be one of them for obvious reasons.

It's obvious to anybody with a bit a sense. Unfortunately, liberals don't even have that much.

[Zara]

It's obvious to anybody with a bit a sense. Unfortunately, liberals don't even have that much.

I would appreciate if you did not respond to my posts unless you use my correct handle. Since what you post is mainly regurgitated or excreted excrement from the lies you're fed, it isn't much of a loss.

[Mountain Man]

I would appreciate if you did not respond to my posts unless you use my correct handle. Since what you post is mainly regurgitated or excreted excrement from the lies you're fed, it isn't much of a loss.

I would appreciate that if you responded to my posts that it be something that wasn't simply a waste of bandwidth.

[Cow Poke]

...excreted excrement ...

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[rogue06]

kind.jpg

Well... there are those who remain full of it

[Cow Poke]

Well... there are those who remain full of it

Would it be excrement if it were never excreted?

[rogue06]

Would it be excrement if it were never excreted?

can'tdisagree.gif

[Electric Skeptic]

This is a difficult issue. I'm not interested in the usual mindless attacks on the left but in a rational assessment of this issue.

Note: for the rest of this post I shall use 'man' and 'woman' to refer to gender, and 'male' and 'female' to refer to biological sex.

We want to encourage and support transgender people in any and every way we can. A transgender woman deserves to be treated as a woman in every possible/reasonable way; a transgender man deserves to be treated as a man in every possible/reasonable way.

But if a transgender man is stricken with uterine cancer (for example) will he refuse treatment on the grounds that he is a man, and thus has no uterus? If a transgender woman is stricken with testicular cancer (for example) will she refuse treatment on the grounds that she is a woman, and thus has no testicles?

Obviously not. We can accept, recognise and encourage the transgender without embracing the fiction that they become biologically of the other sex. Stating that a trans woman is biologically male is not transphobic; it is simply factual. That fact, however, should not (and need not) prevent us from dealing with her on every reasonable basis as a woman.

Sport is obviously an area where the distinction between gender and sex is important. Males and females are not equal in physical performance, as has been known throughout human history. For centuries females were considered too 'frail' and 'weak' to compete at all; thankfully we have long passed that absurdity. However, we still recognise the inherent differences between males and females on the sporting field by having separate 'divisions' for them. Nobody wants to (or talks seriously of) merging the men's and women's golf tours or professional tennis ranks - everybody knows that if they did so, the females would simply quit as they would not be able to compete. On the (relatively rare) occasions when top-level male and female athletes have competed on equal footing (equal apart from their biological sex, that is), the females have invariably been thrashed. This is no slight on women; it is an inevitable fact of biology. The greatest female tennis player in history, Serena Williams, would be easily beaten by any male player in the top 100 in the world. This is no more or less insulting than stating that a team of six foot tall males will always hammer a team of four foot tall males at basketball (all other things being equal). As much as they train, as hard as they try, the four foot tall males will always lose. Encouraging them to try harder is futile and not the point.

The issue is treating transgender people as the gender as which they identify in every way reasonable. That does not mean in every way; it means in every way reasonable. Presumably, transgender women having their annual physical do not refuse to let the doctor examine their testicles on the grounds that they are women, not men. Similarly transgender men with things like pap smears. Many aspects of the medical are ways in which we realise it is not possible to treat transgender people as the gender as which they identify, for the sake of their own health.

The question is merely one of whether athletic contests are one of the areas in which it is reasonable to treat transgender people as their identified gender. It is a difficult issue because regardless of which decision is made, someone is going to be treated (in a way that they see as) unfairly.

Treating transgender people as their identified gender in athletic contests will result (and has resulted) in many transwomen dominating women's sport. Their biology gives them an insurmountable edge. It may well be considered by female competitors that this is unfair on them.

The alternative, to treat transgender people as their biological sex in athletic contests, will result in women's sport remaining much as it has for the purposes of level of competition. Contestants will continue to be females, and transgender women will be required to compete in men's sport or not at all. This, they no doubt feel, would be unfair to them.

There is also the consideration that treating transgender people as their biological sex in athletic contests could result in a second class of transgender people - she's not a "real" woman, because she can't compete against females. Transgender people, reasonably, are opposed to this because they do not want to be seen as not "real" <insert identified gender>. They want to be recognised as real members of their chosen gender.

I have given this long consideration and in the end come down strongly on the side of treating transgender people as their biological sex for the purposes of athletic contests. Loathe as I am to specify an area in which it is not possible/reasonable for a transgender person to be fully identified as the gender as which they identify, I feel that the unfairness to all females if they were allowed to compete as their chosen gender is much greater than the unfairness of not letting them compete as their chosen gender. Implementation of this is simple - have it written into the rules of (what we now call) women's sport that competitors are limited to those biologically female. This would no doubt lead to confusion and argument with cases involving intersex athletes like Caster Semenya; these would, I feel, have to be dealt with on an individual basis.

I must also confess to some sympathy with a viewpoint I saw somewhere in this thread (or perhaps elsewhere online) - I do not understand why a transgender woman would want to compete against females. They know they have an immense advantage simply by virtue of their biology - what would be the challenge of beating those who are inherently physically inferior? It would be like an NFL footballer somehow getting approval to play in a high school league. Why would he want to do it, when he knows that no matter how hard they train, how much the other players work, they could never approach him athletically by virtue of things completely outside their control? Of course, if that NFL footballer were able to earn a very large amount of money (larger than the amount he could earn continuing in the NFL) by playing in that high school league, he might not care how challenging it is.

And I firmly reject labelling of those with a similar viewpoint as mine as TERFs or similar; it is an aspect of the left that I reject. I understand and can even sympathise with it, but I reject it nonetheless.

[Electric Skeptic]

I would appreciate if you did not respond to my posts unless you use my correct handle. Since what you post is mainly regurgitated or excreted excrement from the lies you're fed, it isn't much of a loss.

Don't bother. Someone as childish as that is not worthy of your civility. I had the same problem on this forum with him; I solved it by simply ignoring him until he evidences that he has matured beyond the level of a 9-year old.