Originally posted by firstfloor
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
A human life _usually_ begins at conception ...
Collapse
X
-
That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostHitler would agree with you.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
Comment
-
Originally posted by firstfloor View PostRegarding the subject of this thread, it turns out that while life begins at conception, it is not a fact critical to the ethics of abortion and we need first to appreciate the difference between ‘something’ and ‘someone’.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostThe absolute amount of crap in that article is stunningSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWhat else would you expect from a psychologist?Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
-
As a Psychology major, I'm a bit offended. Though, the soft sciences certainly do have plenty of weird people. But every field of human knowledge has some mad scientist/artist types. So, it's silly to act as if all the fools had the exact same major in school.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View Posttl:dr
Many 2nd trimester abortions. I dont think you can do much better without invoking religious teaching, which would run afoul of the establishment clause.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
-
Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostAs a Psychology major, I'm a bit offended. Though, the soft sciences certainly do have plenty of weird people. But every field of human knowledge has some mad scientist/artist types. So, it's silly to act as if all the fools had the exact same major in school.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThat is actually a well written article and from a purely secular perspectivr provides solid ground to refuse third trimester abortions in any case but the risk of the life of the mother. And it provides a reasonable argument against Many 2nd trimester abortions. I dont think you can do much better without invoking religious teaching, which would run afoul of the establishment clause.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThe article uses the old trick of arbitrarily defining "personhood" and then using that to defend abortion. The author draws a vague line at some point after the first trimester, but there is nothing in his argument to prevent someone from moving the line to later in the pregnancy.
Jim
*I think that at best we could legally make it manslaughter, but I'm not sure even that would pass a secular test with no ties to religious belief.Last edited by oxmixmudd; 03-01-2019, 08:28 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAs the author points out, my skin cells are also human life.
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI just don't see how any of us can win a secular argument governing those very early stages that is based on the idea those early stages are in fact the equivalent of the 2nd or 3rd trimester state of the fetus, because it is fairly easy to show they are not from a scientific perspective.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThey are living cells, but they are not lifeforms. It's a significant distinction that is regularly dismissed by anybody advancing this particular line of reasoning.
We can't win a secular argument, period, because it is based on an arbitrary valuation of which lives deserve legal protection. Once we concede the premise that human life is not objectively valuable in and of itself then abortion at any stage of the pregnancy -- and even after! -- becomes fair game as far as the secular worldview is concerned.
Fanaticism will not do that. Most of you feel I was fanatical as I launched into my criticisms of Donald Trump. And you could not hear me at all. Most of you dismissed everything I said because I was just too over the top as you saw it. That was my mistake. Well, we in the evangelical community are dealing with abortion in a similar way. Yes, we believe this is a child from conception. Yes we believe it is wrong to kill them. But we can't influence what is going on in our country and our world on this subject if we deal with it fanatically.
And honestly, this is not just a 'strategy'. It's the only true reality on this issue. Only the hardest of people (or perhaps people indoctrinated with he current rationale and no actual experience with their own or a relatives baby) can actually understand how these late term abortions proceed, and understand there is no significant difference between that one month baby they hold and goo goo over and the baby in the mothers womb that has only a month or 3 weeks to go, and still support a womens 'right' to terminate that life because it is inconvenient to her or her family.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 03-01-2019, 10:41 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI think you are wrong MM. From a secular perspective especially, It is clear there is a difference between the evolving state of the fetus prior to the second trimester and after.
You and others are arguing scientifically it is human life, and it is.
But that is not a sufficient requirement to confer legal rights.
As the author points out, my skin cells are also human life.
I just don't see how any of us can win a secular argument governing those very early stages that is based on the idea those early stages are in fact the equivalent of the 2nd or 3rd trimester state of the fetus*,
because it is fairly easy to show they are not from a scientific perspective.
All the parts have not yet been created.
Until that process well underway at the very least, the critical elements that make the fetus able to eventually function as a human being just simply don't exist yet.
And if along the way certain critical elements don't form (e.g. the brain, brain stem, heart, etc), it will never be a human person.
Especially, as I've tried to point out earlier, if the brain does not develop. If all that develops is a brain stem, the heart will beat, the body will live, but it is not a human person and never will be.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI think you must qualify that with 'higher', but you make a good point.
Jim
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by rogue06, Today, 09:33 AM
|
8 responses
77 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by oxmixmudd
Today, 03:41 PM
|
||
Started by whag, Yesterday, 10:43 PM
|
51 responses
286 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seer
Today, 04:42 PM
|
||
Started by rogue06, Yesterday, 09:38 AM
|
0 responses
27 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Yesterday, 09:38 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, Yesterday, 06:47 AM
|
83 responses
354 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Today, 01:46 PM
|
||
Started by carpedm9587, 04-14-2024, 02:07 PM
|
57 responses
359 views
2 likes
|
Last Post
by oxmixmudd
Today, 07:12 PM
|
Comment