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James Clapper: "I didn't lie to Congress, I just didn't understand the question!"

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
    So..you DON'T hate Trump? You have me confused now.

    Rabid allegience...Right, that's rich. I do actually try to see all sides...I don't lean as far right as many on this site. I ACTIVELY campaigned against Trump in the Primaries, I thought he was a bad idea. I voted for him because the only other choice seemed worse.

    How far back am I allowed to go? Does FDR's high praise of Joseph Stalin count? He said: (Stalin is) “truly representative of the heart and soul of Russia” and a leader who was “thoroughly conversant with the provisions of our Constitution.”

    LBJ had the CIA help overthrow the Leftist gov't of Brazil with a coup. Da Costa e Silva's regime subsequently arrested 50,000 people the first year alone. But, when re-elected 3 yrs later Johnson had him up to the White House and toasted him with ""Sir, we welcome you to this Capital and to this house. Know that as geography has made us neighbors, history and hope have made us friends."

    JFK said about Park Chung-Hee, one of the most notoriously brutal dictators of South Korea, after meeting with him in 1961: "The President welcomed Chairman Park's full exposition of the current situation in the Republic of Korea and expressed his gratification at the many indications of progress made by the new Government of the Republic."

    How about Nixon's toast about his trip to China that opened the trade door when he compared Mao Zedong and the communist leadership to "George Washington and the other leaders of the American revolution."?

    Ronald Reagan said in 1982 about Rios Montt, the genocidal president of Guatemala. “I know that President Rios Montt is a man of great personal integrity and commitment,”

    Obama gave a "shout out" to the late Meles Zenawi, Ethiopia's deadly oppresive PM during a 2012 speech at the anti-poverty summit for African Leaders. Obama said in his speech that honoring them was part of America's "moral obligation to lead the fight against hunger and malnutrition."
    I’ve noticed that many never Trumpers follow an all or nothing approach when it comes to Trump. You must attack and criticize everything he says and does, or you’re a Trump supporter. There’s no in betweens.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
      So..you DON'T hate Trump? You have me confused now.
      No, I don't hate Trump. But he is a very dangerous and reckless person and does not deserve to president of the United States.

      Rabid allegience...Right, that's rich. I do actually try to see all sides...I don't lean as far right as many on this site. I ACTIVELY campaigned against Trump in the Primaries, I thought he was a bad idea. I voted for him because the only other choice seemed worse.
      I have no issues with that.

      How far back am I allowed to go? Does FDR's high praise of Joseph Stalin count? He said: (Stalin is) “truly representative of the heart and soul of Russia” and a leader who was “thoroughly conversant with the provisions of our Constitution.”
      That is a category error. FDR didn't know who Joseph Stalin was at the time. We know who this dicatator is. We have decades of evidence about how he has abused people, Butchered people. He runs one of the most oppressive regimes in the world today.

      LBJ had the CIA help overthrow the Leftist gov't of Brazil with a coup. Da Costa e Silva's regime subsequently arrested 50,000 people the first year alone. But, when re-elected 3 yrs later Johnson had him up to the White House and toasted him with ""Sir, we welcome you to this Capital and to this house. Know that as geography has made us neighbors, history and hope have made us friends."
      That certainly counts. Was LBJ criticised for it. Was the general public aware of what he was. Do you suppose that had I been there and conscious of what he did and a web page like this existed that I would not declare it evil just as I have what Trump has done? And this is NOT giving a dictator a pass for killing one of our own citizens.

      Why is that different? Because people who don't even take care of their own are a tier below the rest.

      JFK said about Park Chung-Hee, one of the most notoriously brutal dictators of South Korea, after meeting with him in 1961: "The President welcomed Chairman Park's full exposition of the current situation in the Republic of Korea and expressed his gratification at the many indications of progress made by the new Government of the Republic."

      How about Nixon's toast about his trip to China that opened the trade door when he compared Mao Zedong and the communist leadership to "George Washington and the other leaders of the American revolution."?

      Ronald Reagan said in 1982 about Rios Montt, the genocidal president of Guatemala. “I know that President Rios Montt is a man of great personal integrity and commitment,”

      Obama gave a "shout out" to the late Meles Zenawi, Ethiopia's deadly oppresive PM during a 2012 speech at the anti-poverty summit for African Leaders. Obama said in his speech that honoring them was part of America's "moral obligation to lead the fight against hunger and malnutrition."
      Ok - so now we can see Trump has company at least in terms of covering bad actions of bad people.

      Did any of these excuse the mistreatment to death of an American Citizen?

      Does that make what ANY of these men did right?

      I am being excoriated for saying Trump should not have given Un a pass. Are you going to defend all of these actions as well? Are you going to make a list of why these men had to do what they did? Are you going to pile accusation after accusation on those that in the time called out their actions as immoral?

      The thing that blows my mind about these conversations is how many of you are willing to treat me as evil for calling out evil. Over and over again - I call out evil. Most if it is undeniable evil. And over and over again you people pile on in defense OF THE EVIL.

      Is that what you planned to be when you accepted Christ? A defender of evil?

      Jim
      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 03-08-2019, 04:25 PM.
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        Ok - so now we can see Trump has company at least in terms of covering bad actions of bad people.
        Yep.


        Did any of these excuse the mistreatment to death of an American Citizen?
        Does that make what ANY of these men did right?
        nope...and I even said it was wrong. Now, here's what I need from you to swing your way. Please show that Un KNEW about the abusive treatment being exacted on Mr. Warmbier.




        I am being excoriated for saying Trump should not have given Un a pass. Are you going to defend all of these actions as well? Are you going to make a list of why these men had to do what they did? Are you going to pile accusation after accusation on those that in the time called out their actions as immoral?
        I'm sorry you feel your being excoriated...but I haven't been doing that I don't think...unless disagreeing with your take is excoriating you?


        The thing that blows my mind about these conversations is how many of you are willing to treat me as evil for calling out evil. Over and over again - I call out evil. Most if it is undeniable evil. And over and over again you people pile on in defense OF THE EVIL.


        Is that what you planned to be when you accepted Christ? A defender of evil?


        Jim
        Show me that Un knew about it and lied about it and I'll agree with you. N. Korea has 25 million people so it's comparable to my state of Texas. I can see how a prisoner here in the system could be mistreated by prison officers without Greg Abbott knowing about it... According to the Washington Times, Trumps full quote is:


        Source: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/28/donald-trump-says-kim-jong-un-didnt-know-about-har/

        HANOI, Vietnam — President Trump said Thursday he’s convinced that North Korean leader Kim Jong-un didn’t know anything about the brutal treatment of American Otto Warmbier, who died in 2017 shortly after being released from a North Korean prison.


        “I did speak to him about it,” Mr. Trump told reporters at the end of a shortened nuclear-weapons summit with Mr. Kim. “I don’t believe he knew about it. He felt badly about it. He knew the case very well.”


        Mr. Warmbier, an Ohio college student visiting North Korea, died from brain injuries suffered during his imprisonment for a minor offense.


        The president said “those prisons are rough. And bad things happen.”


        But he said Mr. Kim didn’t know what happened to Mr. Warmbier.


        “You got a lot of people [in prisons], big country,” Mr. Trump said.

        © Copyright Original Source

        ]Tell me why Un couldn't have known until after the fact. Trump admitted Un "...knew the case well..." but I read that as after the fact.
        "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

        "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
          Yep.


          nope...and I even said it was wrong. Now, here's what I need from you to swing your way. Please show that Un KNEW about the abusive treatment being exacted on Mr. Warmbier.




          I'm sorry you feel your being excoriated...but I haven't been doing that I don't think...unless disagreeing with your take is excoriating you?


          Show me that Un knew about it and lied about it and I'll agree with you. N. Korea has 25 million people so it's comparable to my state of Texas. I can see how a prisoner here in the system could be mistreated by prison officers without Greg Abbott knowing about it... According to the Washington Times, Trumps full quote is:


          Source: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/28/donald-trump-says-kim-jong-un-didnt-know-about-har/

          HANOI, Vietnam — President Trump said Thursday he’s convinced that North Korean leader Kim Jong-un didn’t know anything about the brutal treatment of American Otto Warmbier, who died in 2017 shortly after being released from a North Korean prison.


          “I did speak to him about it,” Mr. Trump told reporters at the end of a shortened nuclear-weapons summit with Mr. Kim. “I don’t believe he knew about it. He felt badly about it. He knew the case very well.”


          Mr. Warmbier, an Ohio college student visiting North Korea, died from brain injuries suffered during his imprisonment for a minor offense.


          The president said “those prisons are rough. And bad things happen.”


          But he said Mr. Kim didn’t know what happened to Mr. Warmbier.


          “You got a lot of people [in prisons], big country,” Mr. Trump said.

          © Copyright Original Source

          ]Tell me why Un couldn't have known until after the fact. Trump admitted Un "...knew the case well..." but I read that as after the fact.
          On the contrary. Tell me how Trump could have been sure enough Kim didn't know anyrhing at all that it could justify risking the public betrayal of this young man and what he and his family suffered at the hands of Un's regime?

          Jim
          Last edited by oxmixmudd; 03-08-2019, 05:19 PM.
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            No, I don't hate Trump. But he is a very dangerous and reckless person and does not deserve to president of the United States.



            I have no issues with that.



            That is a category error. FDR didn't know who Joseph Stalin was at the time. We know who this dicatator is. We have decades of evidence about how he has abused people, Butchered people. He runs one of the most oppressive regimes in the world today.



            That certainly counts. Was LBJ criticised for it. Was the general public aware of what he was. Do you suppose that had I been there and conscious of what he did and a web page like this existed that I would not declare it evil just as I have what Trump has done? And this is NOT giving a dictator a pass for killing one of our own citizens.

            Why is that different? Because people who don't even take care of their own are a tier below the rest.



            Ok - so now we can see Trump has company at least in terms of covering bad actions of bad people.

            Did any of these excuse the mistreatment to death of an American Citizen?

            Does that make what ANY of these men did right?

            I am being excoriated for saying Trump should not have given Un a pass. Are you going to defend all of these actions as well? Are you going to make a list of why these men had to do what they did? Are you going to pile accusation after accusation on those that in the time called out their actions as immoral?

            The thing that blows my mind about these conversations is how many of you are willing to treat me as evil for calling out evil. Over and over again - I call out evil. Most if it is undeniable evil. And over and over again you people pile on in defense OF THE EVIL.

            Is that what you planned to be when you accepted Christ? A defender of evil?

            Jim
            How many Americans, Koreans, and Japanese, with a nuclear armed North Korea, with missiles capable of reaching the US could die under a nuclear armed North Korea, with first strike capabilities? If giving the fat man some praise and overlooking the obvious human rights abuses might prevent Korea, Guam, Japan, and the US west coast from looking like scenes from Fallout worth it? The greater good, which gets these weapons out of their hands sounds like a decent exchange to me. Unless, that is, you like seeing what a nuclear wasteland looks like first hand.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              I’ve noticed that many never Trumpers follow an all or nothing approach when it comes to Trump. You must attack and criticize everything he says and does, or you’re a Trump supporter. There’s no in betweens.
              Actually, what you are noticing is that nearly every day Trump does yet another bizarre and twisted thing, and that people with a sense of decency and good are therefore constantly in a state of disgust and disbelief. Not only at the spectical that is Trump, but at the hoards of people that will throw every moral bone in their bodies under his presidential bus.

              Jim
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                Actually, what you are noticing is that nearly every day Trump does yet another bizarre and twisted thing, and that people with a sense of decency and good are therefore constantly in a state of disgust and disbelief. Not only at the spectical that is Trump, but at the hoards of people that will throw every moral bone in their bodies under his presidential bus.

                Jim
                Actually, what I notice is the media twist everything and turns everything into a crisis, while normal Americans ignore their antics. People that are angry when Trump insults Un and angry when Trump tries to make peace with with Un are unstable nut jobs that should be ignored. They apparently would rather see millions killed in a massive war than a massive war averted, so they could blame Trump. That is rabid hatred.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  On the contrary. Tell me how Trump could have been sure enough Kim didn't know anyrhing at all that it could justify risking the public betrayal of this young man and what he and his family suffered at the hands of Un's regime?

                  Jim
                  Imagine seeing a Hollywood movie about a nuclear war destroying the world, or at least several countries, made real. I think I would rather not see Seoul as a wasteland, than poke a prod the fat man and wish for the best.
                  Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 03-08-2019, 05:38 PM.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    Imagine seeing a Hollywood movie about a nuclear war destroying the world, or at least several countries, made real. I think I would rather not see Seoul as a wasteland, than poke a prod the fat man and wish for the best.
                    Well then, where were you two years ago when your man was doing exactly that?

                    Jim
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Well then, where were you two years ago when your man was doing exactly that?

                      Jim
                      Pointing out the hypocrites that were in an uproar 14 months ago because Trump was going to start a nuclear war are now in an uproar that Trump is now being nice to North Korea. It’s like you want a war, so you can blame it all on Trump. I wish you rabid never Trumpers would make up your minds, are we supposed to be fawning over North Korea or are we supposed to hate them?
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                        Pointing out the hypocrites that were in an uproar 14 months ago because Trump was going to start a nuclear war are now in an uproar that Trump is now being nice to North Korea. It’s like you want a war, so you can blame it all on Trump. I wish you rabid never Trumpers would make up your minds, are we supposed to be fawning over North Korea or are we supposed to hate them?
                        Hypocrites? Rabid 'never-Trumpers'?

                        Calling people self-righteous names doesn't make you right*. Trump was insanely escalating the rhetoric between the US and N. Korea then. And I attribute the deescalation of that rhetoric not to him or any long term plan of his exercised with self-control, but to some persistent and wise council and behind the scenes work by the more sane and capable people he had around him at the time ... though clearly confronting Trump on those issues eventually has cost many of them their jobs.

                        The current insanity of giving Un a pass on the torture and murder of Otto is just another escalation in a 2 year long series of deferment acts towards despots and dictators by a person that appears to in fact envy their kind of absolute power over their people. This is just who he is. And the ugliness and potential danger to our way of life of this element of who Donald Trump is can not be erased by the oh so many spokespeople behind him that will paint each and every act in the brightest colors possible, and the oh so many sheeple (like yourself) willing to excuse each and every immoral act for some 'higher goal' as they perceive it.

                        So what your googly eyes keep you from comprehending pix is that those that have issues with these two acts are not displaying hypocrisy but rather objective dismay at two sorts of extreme acts that are in fact in two different categories. But both of which in fact bring to clarity Trump's utter incapacity for sound judgement, loyalty to this country, and empathy for the people he ostensibly leads.

                        Jim


                        *In case you and MM hadn't figured it out yet, calling people hypocrites or other manufactured derogatory names every other post doesn't exactly put on display your capacity for objective thought.
                        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 03-09-2019, 08:45 AM.
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          Hypocrites? Rabid 'never-Trumpers'?
                          Laugh it up, but all I need to do is watch the flip flops and turn abouts to see the insanity before my eyes. Trump needs to fire Conley was all the rage until he did and now it’s the worst thing ever. Trump is going to get us into a nuclear war was all the rage until Trump started peace talks than he was being too soft. If these about face turn around are not examples of rabid anti Trumpism, what is?

                          Calling people self-righteous names doesn't make you right*. Trump was insanely escalating the rhetoric between the US and N. Korea then. And I attribute the deescalation of that rhetoric not to him or any long term plan of his exercised with self-control, but to some persistent and wise council and behind the scenes work by the more sane and capable people he had around him at the time ... though clearly confronting Trump on those issues eventually has cost many of them their jobs.
                          The irony of the self righteous hypocrite that uses self righteous insults complains about others returning the favor. You really can’t see past your own nose, can you? Honestly, I have no idea of the behind the scenes stuff that goes on at the White House, so I am curious, what is your source, well beyond your own hatred, that tells you this? Besides, other presidents have done about faces when given advice from their advisors, so why is it suddenly an issue if Trump does the same? Let me guess, “TRUMP!!!” Is the answer, correct?

                          The current insanity of giving Un a pass on the torture and murder of Otto is just another escalation in a 2 year long series of deferment acts towards despots and dictators by a person that appears to in fact envy their kind of absolute power over their people. This is just who he is. And the ugliness and potential danger to our way of life of this element of who Donald Trump is can not be erased by the oh so many spokespeople behind him that will paint each and every act in the brightest colors possible, and the oh so many sheeple (like yourself) willing to excuse each and every immoral act for some 'higher goal' as they perceive it.
                          So the bottom line is Trump is supposed to destroy all peace talks and yet again raise the tensions in Korea and risk a war, where a million or more people might die, so Jim can feel like he really stuck it to Un? I hate to tell you this, but those stories are pretty common over there. North Korea being a repressive country is hardly news, kidnappings of South Koreans, Japanese, and Americans are not uncommon stories. Mass starvations, death camps, executions, etc are a daily fact of life in North Korea, but if the possibility that Un and his butchers might go free in return for peace in Korea and the freedom of an entire nation, should it at least be tried? I’d love to see Un and his fellow butchers paying for their crimes, but not at the price of the destruction of South Korea and a million+ dead.

                          So what your googly eyes keep you from comprehending pix is that those that have issues with these two acts are not displaying hypocrisy but rather objective dismay at two sorts of extreme acts that are in fact in two different categories. But both of which in fact bring to clarity Trump's utter incapacity for sound judgement, loyalty to this country, and empathy for the people he ostensibly leads.
                          And what your rabid hatred keeps you from seeing is that I’d rather have Un and his butchers go free in the return for the freedom of a country and no threat of a nuclear war than Un and his butchers pay along with a million or more dying with them. It had nothing to do with devotion to Trump, as you want to believe, but for the safety of an entire nation and my friends currently over there. I’d rather not have to attend funerals and deliver messages that mommy or daddy are not coming home. You’re welcome to attend if you like though, there might be a lot of moms and dads not returning if you have your way.

                          *In case you and MM hadn't figured it out yet, calling people hypocrites or other manufactured derogatory names every other post doesn't exactly put on display your capacity for objective thought.
                          Irony at its finest.
                          Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 03-09-2019, 09:46 AM.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            Actually, what you are noticing is that nearly every day Trump does yet another bizarre and twisted thing, and that people with a sense of decency and good are therefore constantly in a state of disgust and disbelief. Not only at the spectical that is Trump, but at the hoards of people that will throw every moral bone in their bodies under his presidential bus.

                            Jim
                            To add...It seems like every month or every week, someone quits his staff, BECAUSE of something Donald Trump does. And it's frankly because they won't compromise their ethics and morals. Even the former fox news executive quit Trump's staff.
                            A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                            George Bernard Shaw

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              Laugh it up, but all I need to do is watch the flip flops and turn abouts to see the insanity before my eyes. Trump needs to fire Conley was all the rage until he did and now it’s the worst thing ever. Trump is going to get us into a nuclear war was all the rage until Trump started peace talks than he was being too soft. If these about face turn around are not examples of rabid anti Trumpism, what is?
                              Not talking about Conley. I am talking about the fact that Trump in choosing to 'believe' Un abandoned the parents of a young man detained for no real reason, tortured and killed by Un's regime. Trump had other options than to go to the extreme he did, abandoning support for this family whose son died at their hands. For you to have characterized this as some sort of critical response to avoid nuclear war is irrational fantasy.

                              Are you truly unaware of just how illogical and senseless it is for you not to have been concerned about Trumps crazed rhetoric of one and two years ago and to be critical of those that were concerned about it while at the same time claiming that Trump abandoning support for this family and the young man that died at Un's hand is somehow 'necessary' to avoid the very nuclear engagement Trump was pushing us towards in the days when Un was test firing missiles is truly illogical and senseless prattle. You accuse me of flip-flopping yet here you are reacting 180 degrees out of phase to the issue of Trumps actions as they might influence war between the US and North Korea.

                              Trump's rhetoric is daily incensing and motivating increased NK activity and a race to develop, launch, and test nuclear missiles by N Korea:

                              Pix - hey that's ok, and the people that are critical of it just hate trump

                              Trump abandons the family of a US citizen captured and killed by Un and trump says he believes Un

                              Pix - hey that's ok, gee, Trump needed to tread lightly lest Un launch nuclear missiles and start a nuclear war and the people critical of it just hate trump




                              "La Donna Mobile"

                              XXX XXXXX XX XXX XXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXXXX XXX XXXXX. XXX XXXXXX XXXXX XXX XXXX XXXX XXX XXXX, XXX XXX? Honestly, I have no idea of the behind the scenes stuff that goes on at the White House, so I am curious, what is your source, XXXX XXXXXX XXXX XXX XXXXXX, that tells you this?
                              Consider Sessions. He recused himself and suffered endless insults at the hand of Trump and eventually had to Resign. Kelly clearly pushed back against trump and eventually because of it had to resign. I could go on an on. James Mattis. James Comey. Sally Yates. Phreet Bharara. Walter Shaub. Michael Dubke, Reince Priebus, Sean Spicer, Andrew Mccabe, Hope Hicks, Rex Tillerson, HR McMaster. Qualified people who one way or another rubbed Tump the wrong way and lost their jobs because of it.

                              Besides, other presidents have done about faces when given advice from their advisors, so why is it suddenly an issue if Trump does the same? Let me guess, “TRUMP!!!” Is the answer, correct?
                              Yes and no. Trump is the only president to routinely not only ignore the intelligence community but to denigrate them in nearly every way possible. And in doing so shows himself to be the fool. So yes, because Trump has demonstrated over and over he is uniquely a fool unlike any other US president when he ignores the advice of his advisors We do have an issue with it every time. But not because he is a jerk personally, but rather because unlike other presidents who only broke with their advisors rarely and with very good reasons, Trump is stupid enough to think he ALWAYS knows better than those around him that are specialized in areas of expertise Trump just doesn't have. EVERY decision made by a person like that is suspect and must be questioned.


                              So the bottom line is Trump is supposed to destroy all peace talks and yet again raise the tensions in Korea and risk a war, where a million or more people might die, so Jim can feel like he really stuck it to Un? I hate to tell you this, but those stories are pretty common over there. North Korea being a repressive country is hardly news, kidnappings of South Koreans, Japanese, and Americans are not uncommon stories. Mass starvations, death camps, executions, etc are a daily fact of life in North Korea, but if the possibility that Un and his butchers might go free in return for peace in Korea and the freedom of an entire nation, should it at least be tried? I’d love to see Un and his fellow butchers paying for their crimes, but not at the price of the destruction of South Korea and a million+ dead.
                              If that is true, then you would not have been defending Trump when he was daily mocking Un and Un was each weak launching new missiles and threatening nuclear war.

                              Pix, if you can't criticize Trump for doing that, if you were not here railing against Trump then along with myself and others over that very issue, then you are just flapping your trap with the words above pretending to care. Its just a front to justify defending trump today like you do every day and we can expect that if Trump shifts gears and starts again insulting Un and increasing tensions between us and him then you will be there again speaking on his behalf even with the threat to SK and a million+ dead.

                              People who speak from moral motivations do not change what they are for or against with the political tide.


                              And what your rabid hatred keeps you from seeing is that I’d rather have Un and his butchers go free in the return for the freedom of a country and no threat of a nuclear war than Un and his butchers pay along with a million or more dying with them. It had nothing to do with devotion to Trump, as you want to believe, but for the safety of an entire nation and my friends currently over there. I’d rather not have to attend funerals and deliver messages that mommy or daddy are not coming home. You’re welcome to attend if you like though, there might be a lot of moms and dads not returning if you have your way.
                              Empty words Pix, unless you were just as against Trumps rhetoric with NK When Un was launching missiles as I and others were. I don't EVER remembering you agreeing with me about ANYTHING I've criticized Trump for, so I think I am safe calling these empty words. Opportunistic babble because today it lets you support Trump. And if the opposite needs to be said tomorrow to support Trump, then tomorrow you will say the opposite.

                              Now, If you can show me posts from the time of Trumps ratcheting up of the rhetoric with Un to the point pacific islands where having nuclear strike drills where you were criticial of what Trump was doing, then I will retract my characterization of these as empty words.



                              Jim
                              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 03-09-2019, 07:41 PM.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                Not talking about Conley. I am talking about the fact that Trump in choosing to 'believe' Un abandoned the parents of a young man detained for no real reason, tortured and killed by Un's regime. Trump had other options than to go to the extreme he did, abandoning support for this family whose son died at their hands. For you to have characterized this as some sort of critical response to avoid nuclear war is irrational fantasy.

                                Are you truly unaware of just how illogical and senseless it is for you not to have been concerned about Trumps crazed rhetoric of one and two years ago and to be critical of those that were concerned about it while at the same time claiming that Trump abandoning support for this family and the young man that died at Un's hand is somehow 'necessary' to avoid the very nuclear engagement Trump was pushing us towards in the days when Un was test firing missiles is truly illogical and senseless prattle. You accuse me of flip-flopping yet here you are reacting 180 degrees out of phase to the issue of Trumps actions as they might influence war between the US and North Korea.

                                Trump's rhetoric is daily incensing and motivating increased NK activity and a race to develop, launch, and test nuclear missiles by N Korea:

                                Pix - hey that's ok, and the people that are critical of it just hate trump

                                Trump abandons the family of a US citizen captured and killed by Un and trump says he believes Un

                                Pix - hey that's ok, gee, Trump needed to tread lightly lest Un launch nuclear missiles and start a nuclear war and the people critical of it just hate trump




                                "La Donna Mobile"
                                I totally love how you stick your fingers in your ears and scream because wasn’t it the media that spent time saying the same thing 15 months ago and now is singing a new tune that the opposite happened of an armed conflict, but instead peace talks? It’s almost as if the media wants to sell a narrative and seems unhappy that we are not currently at war with NK. While your rant is amusing, I really doubt that Un was personally involved in the death of an American as it was the rank and file that did it. It’s hardly news that NK and the Kim’s are brutal dictators, but do tell what public condemning could accomplish vs trying to make a peace where we are not staring each other down a heavily armed boarder. While the rest of your ranting is rather amusing, I’ll care more when I see you caring about the real crimes of Clinton as much as you care about the supposed crimes of Trump.

                                Consider Sessions. He recused himself and suffered endless insults at the hand of Trump and eventually had to Resign. Kelly clearly pushed back against trump and eventually because of it had to resign. I could go on an on. James Mattis. James Comey. Sally Yates. Phreet Bharara. Walter Shaub. Michael Dubke, Reince Priebus, Sean Spicer, Andrew Mccabe, Hope Hicks, Rex Tillerson, HR McMaster. Qualified people who one way or another rubbed Tump the wrong way and lost their jobs because of it.
                                And Trump isn’t a good person is news how? I know Trump isn’t the greatest and I sure wouldn’t want to directly work for him as an aid. What you keep failing to grasp is just because I don’t spend every waking moment in freak out mode doesn’t mean those that are not are totally in love. I’d much rather see quite a few others in office, but when the choice is criminal Clinton and her criminal enterprise or morally corrupt Trump, the choice is a little easier to take. I won’t lie and say he’s been a total disappointment, he seems to at least try to make good on his promises and hasn’t spent nearly as much time blowing up brown people that Bush and Obama did. Of course, you have an all or nothing approach, either in complete freak out or you totally will support anything. No in between, this you’re off the mark rant.

                                Yes and no. Trump is the only president to routinely not only ignore the intelligence community but to denigrate them in nearly every way possible. And in doing so shows himself to be the fool. So yes, because Trump has demonstrated over and over he is uniquely a fool unlike any other US president when he ignores the advice of his advisors We do have an issue with it every time. But not because he is a jerk personally, but rather because unlike other presidents who only broke with their advisors rarely and with very good reasons, Trump is stupid enough to think he ALWAYS knows better than those around him that are specialized in areas of expertise Trump just doesn't have. EVERY decision made by a person like that is suspect and must be questioned.
                                Considering this is the same intelligence community that has been proved wrong time and time again, well maybe there is an issue with the group that got us involved in Vietnam and Iraq war 2.

                                If that is true, then you would not have been defending Trump when he was daily mocking Un and Un was each weak launching new missiles and threatening nuclear war.
                                I’m just pointing out the absurdity of your freak outs. Is NK a country that a few insults and condemning is enough to push them to the brink of war or not? I do wish you guys would make up your minds already about what version is true.

                                Pix, if you can't criticize Trump for doing that, if you were not here railing against Trump then along with myself and others over that very issue, then you are just flapping your trap with the words above pretending to care. Its just a front to justify defending trump today like you do every day and we can expect that if Trump shifts gears and starts again insulting Un and increasing tensions between us and him then you will be there again speaking on his behalf even with the threat to SK and a million+ dead.
                                Or Jim, I’m pointing out the flip flops and your inability to make up your minds. Is insulting NK and condemning them a good idea or not? Make up your mind please.

                                People who speak from moral motivations do not change what they are for or against with the political tide.
                                People that live in reality land know the world is not ideal and you often have choices to make that are rarely perfect.

                                Empty words Pix, unless you were just as against Trumps rhetoric with NK When Un was launching missiles as I and others were. I don't EVER remembering you agreeing with me about ANYTHING I've criticized Trump for, so I think I am safe calling these empty words. Opportunistic babble because today it lets you support Trump. And if the opposite needs to be said tomorrow to support Trump, then tomorrow you will say the opposite.
                                Is rhetoric going to push NK into a war or not, make up your mind please.

                                Now, If you can show me posts from the time of Trumps ratcheting up of the rhetoric with Un to the point pacific islands where having nuclear strike drills where you were criticial of what Trump was doing, then I will retract my characterization of these as empty words.
                                I wasn’t aware that one had to always say something all the time to agree. I’m simply pointing out what we were told months ago. Is NK going to go to war over insults or not? Make up your mind and tell me what one is the answer.
                                Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 03-09-2019, 09:31 PM.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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