The Lord's Supper (1 Cornithians 11)

[Spiritus Naturae]

"C'mon to the Table, everyone!"

I have always been fascinated by this particular practice and as of late, been studying the varied portions of Scripture (both OT and NT) referring to communal (nothin' to do with communism) meals.

I tend to see the Supper and its significance and meaning as having been "tainted" by Western Church "tradition". I, of course, am the first to admit that I am in no way a theological "professor". Not that I am required to be one anyway, but you know what I mean. Alot of churches tend to see the Lord's Supper as being a somber, downcast sort of "ritual" officiated by a select few, when in actuality it is a wonderous, glorious rememberance for brothers and sisters to enjoy and participate in. The Table is no longer table but "altar", which the Lord's Supper was never intended to be. The "unworthily" in 1 Corinthians 11:29 is misunderstood and misapplied by many to the point of one worrying about what goes through my mind as I sip the "welchs" and bite the "cracker" (I found myself doing this early on) but it rather refers to one's life and character over all. Do I live as Christ's example has set forth for me?

Anywho, I just thought I'd throw this on out there (I'm from Texas ) and see what other members of the TWeb think of or understand from scripture, the Lord's Supper to be and signify.

The LORD bless us all,
Jonathan

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread;
24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.
30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
33 So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.
34 If anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, so that you will not come together for judgment. The remaining matters I will arrange when I come.
-1 CORINTHIANS 11:23-34 (NASB)

[ChrisChillin]

Plus, the sacramental part of the Lord's Supper (the breaking of the bread and the passing of the cup) was generally celebrated as part of a larger meal taken together..

[Spiritus Naturae]

Plus, the sacramental part of the Lord's Supper (the breaking of the bread and the passing of the cup) was generally celebrated as part of a larger meal taken together..

another "Jedi", I see....

Yes, it would appear to be...not just a thimble of "Welchs" (or "Juicy Juice", even better.) and a soda cracker. I see from scripture, there is more going on with the Supper than the occasion we have made it out to be. The Table is important symobolically as well as from a community standpoint, fellowship amongst believers.

[Pilgrim]

I agree that it is not an alter, after all, the sacrifice has already been made. It is a table, the Lord's Table. I often wish if could be more of a "feast" but the reality is that with 300 folks in service that would not be doable on a regular basis. (If I had my way we would celebrate the Lord's Supper every week!) However we do celebrate it as a feast on special occasions and that is very nice.

For me the sacrament of the Lord's Supper is the most meaningful worship I experience. Even more so now that I'm a minster of Word and Sacrament because as we take the elements to folks or as the come forward I get to look into their eyes and know them by name and then we unite with them and all the saints of all times and places around this Table of the Lord. It really is a beautiful thing.

[Spiritus Naturae]

I agree that it is not an alter, after all, the sacrifice has already been made. It is a table, the Lord's Table. I often wish if could be more of a "feast" but the reality is that with 300 folks in service that would not be doable on a regular basis. (If I had my way we would celebrate the Lord's Supper every week!) However we do celebrate it as a feast on special occasions and that is very nice.

For me the sacrament of the Lord's Supper is the most meaningful worship I experience. Even more so now that I'm a minster of Word and Sacrament because as we take the elements to folks or as the come forward I get to look into their eyes and know them by name and then we unite with them and all the saints of all times and places around this Table of the Lord. It really is a beautiful thing.

It truly is a wonderful experience...and yes, 300 things might get a lil' "wild". I, myself, being of the "House-Church" bent can begin to see the wonderous fellowship application of the Supper. I think of the Lord's Supper and reflect on the fact that someday I, and my fellow believers (including my dad, who passed 4 years ago), will indeed sit at that beauteous Table with our LORD and Saviour and all the saints, partaking of a feast most wonderful.

[Spiritus Naturae]

Acts 2:42, 46 NASB

Acts 2:42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
Acts 2:46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple,and
breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,

In the above references do we know that this is indeed the Lord's Supper? How do we know it wasn't simply more of a fellowship meal in regards to a rememberance of Christ? Where did the "modern" form of this practice originate?

And why is no one else as interested in this as I am?

Jonathan

[Paulbarbee]

Acts 2:42, 46 NASB

Acts 2:42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
Acts 2:46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple,and
breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,

In the above references do we know that this is indeed the Lord's Supper? How do we know it wasn't simply more of a fellowship meal in regards to a rememberance of Christ? Where did the "modern" form of this practice originate?

And why is no one else as interested in this as I am?

Jonathan

Actually I would also really like to know more about the modern beliefs about and forms of the The Lord's Supper.

[Spiritus Naturae]

Mayhaps, I can produce more of an interaction from the TWeb if'n (<--Texas influence) I break it down a bit further. Maybe allude to some points of interest.

The Lord's Supper

-occasion=Passover

-the last meal eaten with Jesus and His disciples

-at it's inception, it was part of a larger meal

-"supper" in the Greek 'deipnon' [GREEK]deipnon[/GREEK](I am no Greek scholar by any means so please correct me if neccessary) translates as, "dinner or perhaps the main course/meal in evening"

-this 'format', according to scripture, was never "done away with"

So all this to say why is it not practiced in the same way today? When exactly in the historical roots of Chrisitanity was it modified?

Any takers?

Jonathan

[Paulbarbee]

Mayhaps, I can produce more of an interaction from the TWeb if'n (<--Texas influence) I break it down a bit further. Maybe allude to some points of interest.

The Lord's Supper

-occasion=Passover

-the last meal eaten with Jesus and His disciples

-at it's inception, it was part of a larger meal

-"supper" in the Greek 'deipnon' [GREEK]deipnon[/GREEK](I am no Greek scholar by any means so please correct me if neccessary) translates as, "dinner or perhaps the main course/meal in evening"

-this 'format', according to scripture, was never "done away with"

So all this to say why is it not practiced in the same way today? When exactly in the historical roots of Chrisitanity was it modified?

Any takers?

Jonathan

Well, I'll try.
My pastor argued that this was discontinued because thy were getting drunk and being gluttonous when they came together and therefore this had to be fornmalized into the ceremony. This makes sense considering I Cor. 11:20-34, but I really don't see any passage where the Bible specifically says "stop eating this as a meal." Paul just says in verse 33

1 Corinthians 11:33 NASB

"So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another."

This just says to "wait for one another," nothing about having to stop the full meal.

[Solly]

"C'mon to the Table, everyone!"

I have always been fascinated by this particular practice and as of late, been studying the varied portions of Scripture (both OT and NT) referring to communal (nothin' to do with communism) meals.

I tend to see the Supper and its significance and meaning as having been "tainted" by Western Church "tradition". I, of course, am the first to admit that I am in no way a theological "professor". Not that I am required to be one anyway, but you know what I mean. Alot of churches tend to see the Lord's Supper as being a somber, downcast sort of "ritual" officiated by a select few, when in actuality it is a wonderous, glorious rememberance for brothers and sisters to enjoy and participate in. The Table is no longer table but "altar", which the Lord's Supper was never intended to be. The "unworthily" in 1 Corinthians 11:29 is misunderstood and misapplied by many to the point of one worrying about what goes through my mind as I sip the "welchs" and bite the "cracker" (I found myself doing this early on) but it rather refers to one's life and character over all. Do I live as Christ's example has set forth for me?

Anywho, I just thought I'd throw this on out there (I'm from Texas ) and see what other members of the TWeb think of or understand from scripture, the Lord's Supper to be and signify.

The LORD bless us all,
Jonathan

Good points SN, and points which I have endeavoured to get across to the people I am called to minister the ordinance to. The "unworthily...not discerning the body" refers to our life together, as the body of Christ, which had broken down in Corinth. If we do not sit down in love, in conscious communion with each other, then we partake unworthily, forgetting that it is for the body that Christ died. While there is a personal element - examining ourselves, yet we have often forgotten the communal element: it is the communion of the saints with their Lord, so that examination involves not only our own pious feelings, but also our love for one another, our lack of forgiveness perhaps, or nonRemembrance of the needs of the others.

[John Reece]

Good points SN, and points which I have endeavoured to get across to the people I am called to minister the ordinance to. The "unworthily...not discerning the body" refers to our life together, as the body of Christ, which had broken down in Corinth. If we do not sit down in love, in conscious communion with each other, then we partake unworthily, forgetting that it is for the body that Christ died. While there is a personal element - examining ourselves, yet we have often forgotten the communal element: it is the communion of the saints with their Lord, so that examination involves not only our own pious feelings, but also our love for one another, our lack of forgiveness perhaps, or nonRemembrance of the needs of the others.

Yes



Finding things written by Solly with which I heartily agree is one of the great pleasures I enjoy on TWeb.

[Spiritus Naturae]

Well, I'll try.
My pastor argued that this was discontinued because thy were getting drunk and being gluttonous when they came together and therefore this had to be fornmalized into the ceremony. This makes sense considering I Cor. 11:20-34, but I really don't see any passage where the Bible specifically says "stop eating this as a meal." Paul just says in verse 33

1 Corinthians 11:33 NASB

"So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another."

This just says to "wait for one another," nothing about having to stop the full meal.

I have heard that same argument, Paul. It seems that would be a misapplication of what is actually going on here. You hit the nail on the head, because nowhere does Paul condemn the meal itself but the abuses therein. He does not 'modify' the meal to the watered down ritual of today, but simply corrects those abuses. My understanding of what Paul is saying here is that somethings need to be fixed.

1 Corinthians 11:18-22 NASB

18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it.
19 For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.
20 Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper,
21 for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk.
22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.

Obviously, they were not eating together but it seems there was some 'clique'ing up going on. Some thinking they are too good to eat with the others. Many making sure they got their own and showing no concern as to whether everyone got to eat or drink. They were behaving, eating and drinking specifically, as if they had no home in which to eat! Being greedy buggers . BUT Paul in all this does not say, "Let's revamp the whole dinner idea, guys!"

1 Corinthians 11:23-34 NASB

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread;
24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.

No real mention here of it even needing to be done on a specific day of the week or how often for that matter. When did that become tradition I wonder?

Scripture Verse:

27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.
30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Are we living 'worthily'? Do we remember our brethren? Do we understand the 'body of Christ'?

Scripture Verse:

33 So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.
34 If anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, so that you will not come together for judgment. The remaining matters I will arrange when I come.

Nothing about changing the format of the supper, nothing about doing away with the table and replacing it with an altar. Just the simple admonition that they are to wait for each other and don't come there thinking its an all you can eat buffet.

"This is 'all you can eat' restaurant, not 'eat all you can'!"

Jonathan

[Spiritus Naturae]

The "unworthily...not discerning the body" refers to our life together, as the body of Christ, which had broken down in Corinth. If we do not sit down in love, in conscious communion with each other, then we partake unworthily, forgetting that it is for the body that Christ died. While there is a personal element - examining ourselves, yet we have often forgotten the communal element: it is the communion of the saints with their Lord, so that examination involves not only our own pious feelings, but also our love for one another, our lack of forgiveness perhaps, or nonRemembrance of the needs of the others.

Amen, brother!

[Spiritus Naturae]

I have heard that same argument, Paul. It seems that would be a misapplication of what is actually going on here. You hit the nail on the head, because nowhere does Paul condemn the meal itself but the abuses therein. He does not 'modify' the meal to the watered down ritual of today, but simply corrects those abuses. My understanding of what Paul is saying here is that somethings need to be fixed.

1 Corinthians 11:18-22 NASB

18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it.
19 For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.
20 Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper,
21 for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk.
22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.

Obviously, they were not eating together but it seems there was some 'clique'ing up going on. Some thinking they are too good to eat with the others. Many making sure they got their own and showing no concern as to whether everyone got to eat or drink. They were behaving, eating and drinking specifically, as if they had no home in which to eat! Being greedy buggers . BUT Paul in all this does not say, "Let's revamp the whole dinner idea, guys!"

1 Corinthians 11:23-34 NASB

23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread;
24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.

No real mention here of it even needing to be done on a specific day of the week or how often for that matter. When did that become tradition I wonder?

Scripture Verse:

27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.
30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Are we living 'worthily'? Do we remember our brethren? Do we understand the 'body of Christ'?

Scripture Verse:

33 So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.
34 If anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, so that you will not come together for judgment. The remaining matters I will arrange when I come.

Nothing about changing the format of the supper, nothing about doing away with the table and replacing it with an altar. Just the simple admonition that they are to wait for each other and don't come there thinking its an all you can eat buffet.

"This is 'all you can eat' restaurant, not 'eat all you can'!"

Jonathan

Xavier has shown me another kindness by moving this thread from Christianity to the more appropriate Ecclesiology venue. Anyone wanna cracker?

[Spiritus Naturae]

Thought I'd this on up as some may or may not find it of interest...and I'm bored and I love this topic.


Jonathan