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Thread: The Nag Hammadi (Gnostic Christian AstroTheology)

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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guacamole View Post
    I agree, but it might be worth offering an explanation as to why historians have come to this conclusion?
    Not sure what historians have to do with it. The archons of the Nag Hammadi are generally wholly spiritual beings uncontaminated by interaction with matter, which is the creation of a confused offspring of Sophia. Djinni are known because of their interaction with the created world, so... totally different concept. A quick perusal of the Nag Hammadi texts would show that they're wholly unrelated to mainstream Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and have a tenuous connection at best to kabala/sufiism. There may be a slight link to Islam, if only because Mohammed's ideas of Judaism and Christianity tended to come from unorthodox sources.
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  2. Amen JohnHermes amen'd this post.
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    tWebber guacamole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Not sure what historians have to do with it.
    Historians try to formulate explanations as to why a fairly diverse set of texts ended up together, because they don't necessarily represent a singular world view.

    The archons of the Nag Hammadi are generally wholly spiritual beings uncontaminated by interaction with matter, which is the creation of a confused offspring of Sophia. Djinni are known because of their interaction with the created world, so... totally different concept.
    A useful distinction. I was of the impression that "djin" do not appear in the library, by word or description.

    A quick perusal of the Nag Hammadi texts would show that they're wholly unrelated to mainstream Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and have a tenuous connection at best to kabala/sufiism. There may be a slight link to Islam, if only because Mohammed's ideas of Judaism and Christianity tended to come from unorthodox sources.
    Wholly unrelated? I agree that they don't represent orthodox Christianity, but surely they give some light on the formation of early Christian belief.

    fwiw,
    guacamole
    Last edited by guacamole; 03-08-2019 at 09:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by guacamole View Post
    Historians try to formulate explanations as to why a fairly diverse set of texts ended up together, because they don't necessarily represent a singular world view.
    From what I recall, the best guess is that the collector simply found them interesting to read, and got buried instead of destroyed during Theophilus patriarch of Alexandria's crackdown on Origenism c. 400.
    Wholly unrelated? I agree that they don't represent orthodox Christianity, but surely they give some light on the formation of early Christian belief.
    They shed some light on beliefs which were rejected early on as not normative and did not survive such rejection. There is no indication that any of those beliefs were widespread. There is no indication, other than unsupported assertions here and there of it being material handed down in secret, that the material can be linked to the apostolic kerygma. The most celebrated work found in the collection, the Gospel of Thomas, is arguably dependent on the Diatesseron of Tatian, which would mark it firmly as pseudepigraphic.
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    tWebber guacamole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    From what I recall, the best guess is that the collector simply found them interesting to read, and got buried instead of destroyed during Theophilus patriarch of Alexandria's crackdown on Origenism c. 400.
    I read another that guessed that they were from a nearby monastery or religious community that purged heretical texts but didn't want to destroy them.

    They shed some light on beliefs which were rejected early on as not normative and did not survive such rejection. There is no indication that any of those beliefs were widespread. There is no indication, other than unsupported assertions here and there of it being material handed down in secret, that the material can be linked to the apostolic kerygma. The most celebrated work found in the collection, the Gospel of Thomas, is arguably dependent on the Diatesseron of Tatian, which would mark it firmly as pseudepigraphic.
    By formulation, I meant hinting at the processes you have described here. I suppose "widespread" would be in the eye of the beholder--there was an audience wide enough to justify the economics of scribal work. Valentinus was regarded as enough of a threat that he is directly addressed by church fathers.

    I do not want to give the impression that I think the Gnostics were as widespread as orthodox Christians.
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    Quote Originally Posted by guacamole View Post
    I read another that guessed that they were from a nearby monastery or religious community that purged heretical texts but didn't want to destroy them.
    That's more or less what I was getting at with the second part of my response; it doesn't address why disparate texts were bound together.
    By formulation, I meant hinting at the processes you have described here. I suppose "widespread" would be in the eye of the beholder--there was an audience wide enough to justify the economics of scribal work. Valentinus was regarded as enough of a threat that he is directly addressed by church fathers.
    On the other hand, it did not long survive its heyday; conversely, Manichaeanism (which is rather more related than orthodox Christianity) lasted for centuries. It was not sufficiently widespread to self-propagate in the face of resistance.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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    tWebber JohnHermes's Avatar
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    All mainstream religions have an esoteric belief system, where just about everything is read in parables as well as the Nag Hammadi. But I believe there's a line between allegory and literalism. In a gnostic sense the Archons also represent the planets. Those planets in ancient times were referred to as the "gods" as we see in roman mythology and greek mythology connection. Indigenous shamans would call them Gatekeepers of reality. Is anyone is familiar with esoteric yoga and the nerve-plexuses chakra system? Each chakra is associated with each of the 7 planets and their respective zodiac signs. The physical realm is known as the first gate also associated with the root chakra (physical aspects of our being). We can go on for days, but let me just post this for you guys.


    I found this interesting article on a conversation between someone and a Djinn. They funny thing is the information in there falls perfectly in line with Carlos Castaneda's books. Either someone's talking out their butt and just mimicking his works, or they had this real experience, or they're nuts.



    HW: Are those the ones that the Gnostikoi called the archons?

    (I used the Greek term for the Gnostics.)

    J: Oh… so you know about them… (The Jinn’s field brightened reflecting excitement.) The archons are not true spirits. They are mind beings, mental entities many of who were created by humans as thought-forms. Many of these function as attachments… as mental parasites.

    HW: How do they do that?

    J: They feed on the energy… on the attention paid to them by humans. This includes the energy generated by human belief systems. But they are not true spirits and they will cease to exist if nobody pays attention to them any more. The ones you call ‘the archons’ are those that we call ‘the deceivers,’ and like us they are not creative. But they can mimic and they can take on forms in response to human belief systems.”


    http://www.sharedwisdom.com/article/...nn-genie-egypt
    Last edited by JohnHermes; 03-09-2019 at 02:05 AM.

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