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Thread: The book Darwin Devolves

  1. #381
    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    I expect most mutations of any type follow the same pattern, where they are mostly neutral or deleterious. If you want to control something, and the control knob is twisted, you don't tend to get a better result.
    I'd like Lee to return to this. How much do you know about the regulatory DNA that controls gene activity? Do you understand how mutations tend to effect them? What implications do changes in them have for gene function?
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  2. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
  3. #382
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    If a mutation is damaging to an organism it can't be beneficial by definition, and vice versa.
    No, Behe means damaging to a gene, as do the computer programs. Such mutations can be beneficial to an organism, such as the damaged gene that gave the polar bear the ability to sustain a high-fat diet.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  4. #383
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    How much do you know about the regulatory DNA that controls gene activity? Do you understand how mutations tend to effect them? What implications do changes in them have for gene function?
    Well, I know a little, changes in them would tend to interfere with their function of up- or down-regulating production of the gene they apply to, so changes to them would not change the gene, and thus the gene function, per se.

    But I phrase my thoughts in this area of gene regulation as expectations, not as conclusions.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  5. #384
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    That's why I try to be careful to say "damaging" instead of "deleterious". As far as I understand, in Behe's terminology, "damaging" means reduced or abolished activity. As in the computer models saying "probably damaging" of a given mutation.

    Behe's view is that damaging mutations can often be beneficial, or put the other way around, beneficial mutations are usually damaging.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Your digging your hole deeper and wider. Enough room for both you and Behe.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

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    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  6. #385
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, I know a little, changes in them would tend to interfere with their function of up- or down-regulating production of the gene they apply to, so changes to them would not change the gene, and thus the gene function, per se.

    But I phrase my thoughts in this area of gene regulation as expectations, not as conclusions.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Keep digging and you will end up some where off the coast of Australia.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  7. #386
    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, I know a little, changes in them would tend to interfere with their function of up- or down-regulating production of the gene they apply to, so changes to them would not change the gene, and thus the gene function, per se.
    Everything about that is wrong. Literally every single sub statement, including "I know a little."
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  8. Amen shunyadragon, HMS_Beagle, Seeker, Duragizer amen'd this post.
  9. #387
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    A variation on the three step approach to refuting creationist garage:

    1) Quote their claim.
    2) Quote their previous claim
    3) Note the glaring discrepancy.
    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    That's why I try to be careful to say "damaging" instead of "deleterious".
    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill, earlier
    According to this paper, about half of the mutations are neutral, and about half are deleterious.
    Dory clearly isn't trying very hard, and can't remember failing.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

  10. Amen shunyadragon, Seeker, Duragizer amen'd this post.
  11. #388
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, I know a little, changes in them would tend to interfere with their function of up- or down-regulating production of the gene they apply to, so changes to them would not change the gene, and thus the gene function, per se.

    But I phrase my thoughts in this area of gene regulation as expectations, not as conclusions.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Behe and you fail to realize that simply the observed history of the nature genetic mutations makes Behe's and your assertions, without science, false.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  12. #389
    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    No, Behe means damaging to a gene, as do the computer programs. Such mutations can be beneficial to an organism, such as the damaged gene that gave the polar bear the ability to sustain a high-fat diet.
    I see you're still in denial over Behe's disingenuous word games to sell books to ignorant rubes like you.

  13. Amen shunyadragon, Seeker amen'd this post.
  14. #390
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    A variation on the three step approach to refuting creationist garage:

    1) Quote their claim.
    2) Quote their previous claim
    3) Note the glaring discrepancy.

    Dory clearly isn't trying very hard, and can't remember failing.
    Wow! That is a glaring contradiction.

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