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The book Darwin Devolves

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  • #31
    Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
    Let me take a wild guess: you've only read the abstract, and not the body of the paper.
    Yes, if I'm wrong let me know. And the paper is behind a paywall, glad to read public papers...

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Roy View Post
      The bolded section is exactly what Behe did here - exaggerating the number of "damaging" mutations. He is projecting his own tactics onto others.
      No, he explicitly said there were benign mutations. The table must be a summary of all the probably damaging mutations.

      He exaggerated here too:
      Source: ibid, my emphasis

      A second highly-selected gene, LYST, is associated with pigmentation, and changes in it are probably responsible for the blanching of the ancestor’s brown fur. Computer analysis of the multiple mutations of the gene showed that they, too, were almost certainly damaging to its function.

      © Copyright Original Source

      Only one of the mutations of LYST was listed as not being benign by either analysis method. Most were evaluated as benign by both. And again, Behe is ignoring that "damaging" here means only that a change affects the chemical properties of the protein, it doesn't necessarily mean that the change is deleterious - it could have negligible effect on the protein's use, or even be beneficial.
      But I'm seeing the following at the link you posted:

      LYST 1046 D Y possibly damaging 0.947 benign 0.272
      LYST 1084 A S benign 0.045 benign 0.015
      LYST 1140 F L benign 0 benign 0
      LYST 1770 L F benign 0.005 benign 0.007
      LYST 2672 N K benign 0.032 benign 0.021
      LYST 2978 R S probably damaging 0.957 benign 0.445
      LYST 3784 Q H probably damaging 0.998 probably damaging 0.983


      Blessings,
      Lee
      Last edited by lee_merrill; 03-12-2019, 02:05 PM.
      "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
        Yes, if I'm wrong let me know. And the paper is behind a paywall, glad to read public papers...
        I hate to be a broken record, but how about you not promote conclusions you don't know are right?
        "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
          No, he explicitly said there were benign mutations. The table must be a summary of all the probably damaging mutations.



          But I'm seeing the following at the link you posted:

          LYST 1046 D Y possibly damaging 0.947 benign 0.272
          LYST 1084 A S benign 0.045 benign 0.015
          LYST 1140 F L benign 0 benign 0
          LYST 1770 L F benign 0.005 benign 0.007
          LYST 2672 N K benign 0.032 benign 0.021
          LYST 2978 R S probably damaging 0.957 benign 0.445
          LYST 3784 Q H probably damaging 0.998 probably damaging 0.983


          Blessings,
          Lee
          . . . which in and of itself it has no coherent context to your argument, because of the dishonest citation of the evidence.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
            I hate to be a broken record, but how about you not promote conclusions you don't know are right?
            Well, part of discussing involves making an estimate at times. If you know I am incorrect, you may therefore correct me.

            Blessings,
            Lee
            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
              No, that's very specific, like saying Henry Ford designed the Model T.
              We have verifiable evidence that Henry Ford designed the Model T Ford, we don't have verifiable evidence that a deity "designed" the universe.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                And "God did it" isn't vague?
                No, that's very specific, like saying Henry Ford designed the Model T.
                And just as wrong.

                But if "God did it" is sufficiently specific, then "Evolution did it" is all the detail Dory needs.
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  We have verifiable evidence that Henry Ford designed the Model T Ford, ...
                  When will you learn not to believe anything creationist frauds say?

                  Ford didn't design the model T. He owned and ran the company. He paid other people to design the vehicles that the company built.
                  Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                  MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                  MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                  seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                    No, he explicitly said there were benign mutations. The table must be a summary of all the probably damaging mutations.
                    ...which omits the second evaluation method that classifies many of them as benign rather than damaging. That's dishonest.
                    Only one of the mutations of LYST was listed as not being benign by either analysis method. Most were evaluated as benign by both.
                    But I'm seeing the following at the link you posted:

                    LYST 1046 D Y possibly damaging 0.947 benign 0.272
                    LYST 1084 A S benign 0.045 benign 0.015
                    LYST 1140 F L benign 0 benign 0
                    LYST 1770 L F benign 0.005 benign 0.007
                    LYST 2672 N K benign 0.032 benign 0.021
                    LYST 2978 R S probably damaging 0.957 benign 0.445
                    LYST 3784 Q H probably damaging 0.998 probably damaging 0.983
                    You may be seeing it, but you don't seem to be reading it.
                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                      Well, part of discussing involves making an estimate at times. If you know I am incorrect, you may therefore correct me.
                      Because that's you foisting the effort you should be making onto me. I'd argue that having a modicum of respect for both yourself and others here requires that you try to make sure the statements that you make are accurate. Not "well, this is what i'd like to believe, now show me i'm wrong".
                      "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        We have verifiable evidence that Henry Ford designed the Model T Ford, we don't have verifiable evidence that a deity "designed" the universe.
                        Well, that is what we are discussing! Evidence that a deity designed the universe.

                        Blessings,
                        Lee
                        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Roy View Post
                          Wasn't me that found it - follow the links.

                          Actually, don't - I put the wrong link in. Try here.
                          Thank you!!!!!
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                            Well, that is what we are discussing! Evidence that a deity designed the universe.

                            Blessings,
                            Lee
                            There is no evidence!

                            The only thing I have seen is an unethical selective citation of scientific references and a vague manipulative 'arguing from ignorance.'
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                              Because that's you foisting the effort you should be making onto me.
                              But does this mean you haven't read the paper?

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                                But does this mean you haven't read the paper?

                                Blessings,
                                Lee
                                I agree this is a problem, but I brought you to task over repeatedly citing the abstract of a scientific article without access to the article, and all you did was continue citing the abstract.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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