Special Debate Tonight

[Sparko]

Nick, did you affirm the Virgin Birth????

[Apologiaphoenix]

I did affirm the virgin birth. At one point, someone asked Dan a question that seemed to say he affirmed the virgin birth of the universe and I made a reference there.

[Cow Poke]

Were there cookies?

[Apologiaphoenix]

I don't think anything was served.

[rogue06]

I don't think anything was served.

It seems that anyone arguing that 2 + 2 didn't equal 4 during the Mesozoic era got served.

[TheWall]

The debate is not at the link.

[Apologiaphoenix]

That’s because it hasn’t been released yet

[KingsGambit]

What was the context of Barker making this claim?

[Apologiaphoenix]

This was the statement I had made in my OP.

What about truth? We know that some propositions are true. 2 +2 = 4. This sounds insignificant, but imagine what it means. Before any human being ever existed, 2 + 2 = 4. If you had two T Rex’s and two more came, you had four of them even if no human was around to count them. Even in a fairy tale, you can think of pumpkins turning into carriages, but you can’t think of two pumpkins getting put with two pumpkins and totaling five pumpkins.
We could use several other examples. A triangle is an enclosed figure with three sides and 180 degrees. Contradictions cannot be true. Even moral truths. It is wrong to light babies on fire with gasoline for entertainment purposes. These would be true even if all such things vanished. If we obliterated every triangle in existence, it would not change what triangularity is.
All of these propositions are also extramaterial. They would dwell in a divine mind. If truth is what is, this mind would also be truth as He truly is what it means to be. If beauty is that which pleases when experienced, this being would be the most beautiful of all. If goodness is that at which all things aim, this being is the pinnacle of perfection and something all aim to be. In short, this is what we call God.


Barker responded that if people were not around, it would not be true. If we could get in a time machine and go back, it would be.

[rogue06]

So he was in effect making a bizarre version of the if a tree fell and nobody was around to hear it would it make a sound question?

[Apologiaphoenix]

Apparently. If he wants to say that, since I included moral truths in that category, then so much for the Old Testament God being evil. That truth isn't objective either. We constructed it just like we did Math.

[jpholding]

I don't think anything was served.

Apart from Barker's head. Yuk.

[jpholding]

So he was in effect making a bizarre version of the if a tree fell and nobody was around to hear it would it make a sound question?

If a tree fell on Barker's head, and he didn't feel it, did it actually fall?

[TheWall]

I missed the debate.

[Apologiaphoenix]

So did everyone else here. Only Rogue could have made it. You had to be in person. It was recorded and I will link as soon as I can.