Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

How Is This Possible?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Give it up Shunya. You have no idea what you are talking about.

    You are spewing gibberish again.
    Three Stooges Duck Bob and Weave.

    If you cannot respond intelligently to an issue of science we have a problem. Science is NOT based on 'Knowing.' It is based on the falsifiability of theories and hypothesis which may change with new information.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      Three Stooges Duck Bob and Weave.

      If you cannot respond intelligently to an issue of science we have a problem. Science is NOT based on 'Knowing.' It is based on the falsifiability of theories and hypothesis which may change with new information.
      sorry shunya but you haven't a clue what I was even asking. Let me use the word "detect" instead of "know" so you won't be so confused.

      The first observer took a quantum entangled pair that was in superposition and measured it's spin. That should have made the twin particle collapse into the same spin according to quantum mechanics. The 2nd observer detected that the particle was still in superposition.

      I am asking how the 2nd observer could detect that the particle was in superposition? In order to detect that he would have to measure the particle and interact with it. and that would collapse it into a spin.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        sorry shunya but you haven't a clue what I was even asking. Let me use the word "detect" instead of "know" so you won't be so confused.

        The first observer took a quantum entangled pair that was in superposition and measured it's spin. That should have made the twin particle collapse into the same spin according to quantum mechanics. The 2nd observer detected that the particle was still in superposition.

        I am asking how the 2nd observer could detect that the particle was in superposition? In order to detect that he would have to measure the particle and interact with it. and that would collapse it into a spin.
        "Detect" is by far a better word, because the scientists definitely 'do not know,' but it simply remains that these are observations from the human perspective, and consistent with the hypothesis of Quantum Mechanics.

        How? They simply observed it, and at present there is no complete explanation.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          "Detect" is by far a better word, because the scientists definitely 'do not know,' but it simply remains that these are observations from the human perspective, and consistent with the hypothesis of Quantum Mechanics.

          How? They simply observed it, and at present there is no complete explanation.
          You complete git. You didn't even read the article. The observers were computers not people.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            You complete git. You didn't even read the article. The observers were computers not people.
            In science people use computers to do their observations. They remain observations from the human perspective regardless. This is the 21st century, and concerning Quantum Mechanics humans do not directly observe anything on the scale of Quanta.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              In science people use computers to do their observations. They remain observations from the human perspective regardless. This is the 21st century, and concerning Quantum Mechanics humans do not directly observe anything on the scale of Quanta.
              Shunya, go back to sleep. You can't answer my question and you just want to pretend you know what you are talking about but you are talking about something completely different than I was asking. Go bother someone else.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Shunya, go back to sleep. You can't answer my question and you just want to pretend you know what you are talking about but you are talking about something completely different than I was asking. Go bother someone else.
                Near as I can tell, an observer in the room had the thing in one state, while simultaneously an observer outside the room had it in a different state - beyond that, too many strange looking mathematical equations that I couldn't decipher.
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Shunya, go back to sleep. You can't answer my question and you just want to pretend you know what you are talking about but you are talking about something completely different than I was asking. Go bother someone else.
                  I believe tabibito provided the best answer in simple grade school level layman's terms. Do your homework instead of barking at the moon.
                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-25-2019, 07:44 AM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    I believe tabibito provided the best answer in simple grade school level layman's terms. Do your homework instead of barking at the moon.
                    He just stated the setup shunya.

                    How can they observe that the particle is still in superposition if observing the particle would entail measuring the particle and that would collapse the superposition?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      The observer outside the room was taking indirect observations, inside the room was by direct observation, so, two different kinds of observation yielded two different results. (sorry - I missed adding that to the original post). Like I said - there was a lot of math in the article, which is way over my head.
                      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                      .
                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                      Scripture before Tradition:
                      but that won't prevent others from
                      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                      of the right to call yourself Christian.

                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                        The observer outside the room was taking indirect observations, inside the room was by direct observation, so, two different kinds of observation yielded two different results. (sorry - I missed adding that to the original post). Like I said - there was a lot of math in the article, which is way over my head.
                        that's not how it was done. Each observer was looking at one of a pair of entangled particles. They set up a pair of entangle particles that were in superposition. The first observer observed Particle A - which collapsed it into a spin, Then the second observer looked at particle B and found it was still in superposition although it should have collapsed into a the same spin as its twin. But HOW can observer 2 measure that it was in superposition if as soon as he does, it would collapse into a spin.

                        It is like me saying I have a leprechaun in my pocket, but as soon as you do any kind of measurement or look in my pocket, he will change into a marble. How do you observe that there really is a leprechaun in my pocket?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          The more I read ...
                          still, this has at least given me something that I can follow.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                            The more I read ...
                            still, this has at least given me something that I can follow.
                            Yeah that says that if you collapse one particle of an entangled pair, the spin on the other one is determined at the same time no matter what the distance. So in this experiment they measured the spin of one particle but when the other one was checked it was still in superposition. That is what I don't understand. How can it still be in superposition and how can they even tell? Since you have to measure the particle to find out and that would cause it to collapse out of superposition.

                            Comment

                            Related Threads

                            Collapse

                            Topics Statistics Last Post
                            Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-18-2024, 12:15 PM
                            48 responses
                            135 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Sparko
                            by Sparko
                             
                            Started by Sparko, 03-07-2024, 08:52 AM
                            16 responses
                            74 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post shunyadragon  
                            Started by rogue06, 02-28-2024, 11:06 AM
                            6 responses
                            48 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post shunyadragon  
                            Working...
                            X