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Thread: No Collusion!

  1. #21
    Professor Catholicity's Avatar
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    I think given that the Russians DID offer to fix the election and the number of people in the campaign that were criminals the investigation wasn't a witch hunt, but it needed to happen. An investigation like this will hopefully make the smart people wise up to "yes" a foreign idiot can try and hack the election in the US.
    2) If you want to elect someone who isn't Donald Trump Vote in 2020
    3) Don't hire Cohen and Manafort. Ever
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  2. #22
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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  3. #23
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catholicity View Post
    ...the number of people in the campaign that were criminals...
    A grand total of 5 or 6 people directly connected to the campaign were indicted and/or plead guilty, one of them (Paul Manafort) for crimes entirely unrelated to and committed years before Trump even announced his candidacy, and the rest were for nothing-burger process crimes. It's actually a surprisingly small number of people, and a surprisingly innocuous list of crimes when you consider just how deeply Mueller dug to find dirt on Trump and his staff.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
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  4. #24
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    A grand total of 5 or 6 people directly connected to the campaign were indicted and/or plead guilty, one of them (Paul Manafort) for crimes entirely unrelated to and committed years before Trump even announced his candidacy, and the rest were for nothing-burger process crimes. It's actually a surprisingly small number of people, and a surprisingly innocuous list of crimes when you consider just how deeply Mueller dug to find dirt on Trump and his staff.
    Would any of them have been charged/convicted were it not for the "we gotta get Trump no matter what"?
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  5. #25
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Would any of them have been charged/convicted were it not for the "we gotta get Trump no matter what"?
    In the case of the process crimes, absolutely not. Those were crimes that were committed only because the individuals were drug in for questioning and caught in a perjury trap. In Manafort's case, it's hard to say if his crimes would have caught up with him eventually or not.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  6. #26
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    In the case of the process crimes, absolutely not. Those were crimes that were committed only because the individuals were drug in for questioning and caught in a perjury trap. In Manafort's case, it's hard to say if his crimes would have caught up with him eventually or not.
    Agreed. So it's kinda like the "fruit of the poison tree" situation, in my opinion. If I come into your house on a phony warrant, and discover a stash of marihootchie on your dresser, any charges against you* would be thrown out in court due to the illegal nature of my search.


    *assuming the DA even allowed charges to be pressed - depends on when and how the nature of the phony warrant is exposed.
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  7. #27
    Professor Catholicity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Would any of them have been charged/convicted were it not for the "we gotta get Trump no matter what"?
    Do you really believe that their behavior didn't warrant investigation? Crime has a way of catching up to you. And Manafort was laundering for years. Of all people CP you should know that no one is above the law. The campaign investigation was warranted no matter how you put it.
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
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  8. #28
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catholicity View Post
    Do you really believe that their behavior didn't warrant investigation?
    Never said that - I just prefer that we do things legally and properly.

    Crime has a way of catching up to you.
    Well, so far it hasn't, though not for lack of trying (consider my home school arrest)

    And Manafort was laundering for years. Of all people CP you should know that no one is above the law.
    How bout dialing down the drama just a tad --- I'm fully aware no one is above the law, but I prefer to see the law properly applied within the confines of the Constitution.

    The campaign investigation was warranted no matter how you put it.
    You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
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  9. #29
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Agreed. So it's kinda like the "fruit of the poison tree" situation, in my opinion. If I come into your house on a phony warrant, and discover a stash of marihootchie on your dresser, any charges against you* would be thrown out in court due to the illegal nature of my search.
    That's a frequent plot point in Law & Order.

    (Although it's usually a matter of the detectives inadvertently violating someone's rights rather than doing something deliberately shady because the cops are the good guys on the show.)
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #30
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    That's a frequent plot point in Law & Order.

    (Although it's usually a matter of the detectives inadvertently violating someone's rights rather than doing something deliberately shady because the cops are the good guys on the show.)
    Yeah, it's a common theme in law enforcement --- and because there are some unscrupulous investigators and police officers, the system sometimes too zealously throws out good arrests or prosecutions where honest mistakes were made that should not impact the outcome.

    The worst, in my experience, was one in which we had arrested a man for the rape and murder of a 9 year old girl -- the guy actually took us to the body in wooded field. His conviction was thrown out, however, because some !$!^!&! Sheriff's Deputy offered the criminal a glass of wine during the interview "to calm him down" --- that deputy should be tied to a wagon wheel and horsewhipped - but the murderer/rapist shouldn't have been set free because of this idiot.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

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