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Thread: The parable of the rich fool

  1. #11
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I read something by Dallas Willard once that poverty in itself could not be inherently good, because it would mean that transferring one's possessions to the poor imputed evil to the recipients. The same general principle could be applied to Luke 12:33. Jesus's teaching seems more hortatory than strictly literal, but that does not leave us wealthy Christians (and those of us with Internet access would qualify) off the hook.

    Even the famous example of the early church in Acts who had everything in common requires some qualification. It seems they didn't sell everything at once, but rather as a need arose (Acts 2:45). This implies holding onto one's possessions loosely, which I think perfectly matches the spirit of what Jesus taught in Luke 12.
    In his Neither Poverty Nor Riches Craig Blomberg concluded that Acts 2 wasn't a situation of selling all one's goods at once but rather a periodic selling of property (noting the phrase "from time to time" used by the NIV translation in Acts 4:34) as individual need arose.

    This was not a one-time divestiture of all one’s possessions. The theme 'according to need,' reappears, too. Interestingly, what does not appear in this paragraph is any statement of complete equality among believers. Presumably, there was quite a spectrum, ranging from those who still held property not sold (cf. the reference to the home of John Mark in Acts 12:12) all the way to those who were still living at a very basic level.33 But the church was committed to taking the principle of Deuteronomy 15:4 very seriously: 'there should be no poor among you' (F. Martin 1972: 46).

    I'm always still in trouble again

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    で~え。Just another instance of pan/pasa/pas (all) and holos (the whole) not being confluent with the dictionary definition of "all". These people who sold all they had still somehow managed to have their own houses, where they were able to host meetings. pan/pasa/pas should be viewed on many occasions as hyperbolic.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  3. #13
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Another clue that we shouldn't take this completely literally and sell everything is Luke 16:9, where Jesus says to use worldly wealth to make friends for yourself.
    And another is the oft misquoted "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." (usually I hear people leaving off the "the love of")
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    In his Neither Poverty Nor Riches Craig Blomberg concluded that Acts 2 wasn't a situation of selling all one's goods at once but rather a periodic selling of property (noting the phrase "from time to time" used by the NIV translation in Acts 4:34) as individual need arose.

    This was not a one-time divestiture of all one’s possessions. The theme 'according to need,' reappears, too. Interestingly, what does not appear in this paragraph is any statement of complete equality among believers. Presumably, there was quite a spectrum, ranging from those who still held property not sold (cf. the reference to the home of John Mark in Acts 12:12) all the way to those who were still living at a very basic level.33 But the church was committed to taking the principle of Deuteronomy 15:4 very seriously: 'there should be no poor among you' (F. Martin 1972: 46).
    That book is exactly where I got that idea.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    The rich young fool was considered a fool not because he was planning for the future but because he placed his entire hope in earthly treasures that would be useless to him after he died. Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:14 suggests that parents should save up their money so as not to be a burden to their children, so obviously things like putting together a retirement nest egg so you can live comfortably later in life is not contrary to scripture. It's not money that is the root of all kinds of evil, but the love of money.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  6. Amen The Remonstrant, KingsGambit amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Why does it remind me of a Christmas Carol? Except that Scrooge got a second chance.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    But what about the verse where Jesus says "those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples." (Luke 14:33) In what way are we to give up everything that we have?

    Maybe part of the answer is here: "All the believers were together and had everything in common." (Acts 2:44)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    This is one of those topics where I'm really interested in how people put their money where their mouth is, literally in this case.

    A few years ago on a similar thread, there was a Christian poster who took the verse 100% literally and insisted that all Christians had to get rid of all possessions. I asked him if he was logging on from a public library. He said no, he hadn't done it because he was a sinner and we're not all perfect yet. Needless to say, he had no credibility.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  10. Amen Cow Poke, Obsidian amen'd this post.
  11. #19
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    But what about the verse where Jesus says "those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples." (Luke 14:33) In what way are we to give up everything that we have?

    Maybe part of the answer is here: "All the believers were together and had everything in common." (Acts 2:44)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    The question is, how literally are we to take the exhortation to give up everything we have? I think the answer is not literally at all since Jesus also says in the same discourse that you must hate your family. And the parable immediately preceding verse 33 is about an overmatched king sending a delegation and gifts in order to appease his foe and prevent a war, and verse 33 begins with "In the same way..."
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  12. #20
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    But what about the verse where Jesus says "those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples." (Luke 14:33) In what way are we to give up everything that we have?

    Maybe part of the answer is here: "All the believers were together and had everything in common." (Acts 2:44)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The question is, how literally are we to take the exhortation to give up everything we have? I think the answer is not literally at all since Jesus also says in the same discourse that you must hate your family. And the parable immediately preceding verse 33 is about an overmatched king sending a delegation and gifts in order to appease his foe and prevent a war, and verse 33 begins with "In the same way..."
    Context, context, context. In both cases, Jesus is talking to a specific person or persons about a specific instance/situation. It's not a universal command...the thing we can take away from it is to not let anything stand between you and God. If anything other than God controls your life, then that thing is Sin to you. Whether is money, family, work, possessions, love, food, drink, etc.
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

  13. Amen Cow Poke, rogue06, Christianbookworm amen'd this post.

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