John 17:5 preexistence or foreknowledge?

[Christian3]

John 17:5 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence
with that glory I had with You
before the world existed.


Does this verse confirm Jesus' preexistence or God's foreknowledge?

Jeremiah:

4 The word of the Lord came to me:

5 I chose you before I formed you in the womb;
I set you apart before you were born.
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Thank you.

[Bill the Cat]

John 17:5 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence
with that glory I had with You
before the world existed.


Does this verse confirm Jesus' preexistence or God's foreknowledge?

Jeremiah:

4 The word of the Lord came to me:

5 I chose you before I formed you in the womb;
I set you apart before you were born.
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Thank you.

John 17:5 confirms the pre-existence of the Son while Jeremiah 4:5 confirms God's foreknowledge.

[tabibito]

και νυν δοξασον με συ πατερ παρα σεαυτω τη δοξη η ειχον προ του τον κοσμον ειναι παρα σοι
and - now - glorify - me - you - father - beside - yourself - to the - glory - that - I was holding - before - of the - the - cosmos - to be - beside - to you

Nothing there addresses foreknowledge (προγινωσκω)

προ του με πλασαι σε εν κοιλια επισταμαι σε και προ του σε εξελθειν εκ μητρας ηγιακα σε προφητην εις εθνη τεθεικα σε
before - of the - me - to form - you - in - abdominal cavity - I (fully) understand/comprehend - you - and - before - of the - you - to issue - from - of the womb - Ι have sanctified/set apart - you - prophet - to - the nations - I have appointed - you

Nothing there addresses preexistence. In fact - it addresses the lack of a preexistence.

[Joel]

John 17:5 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence
with that glory I had with You
before the world existed.


Does this verse confirm Jesus' preexistence or God's foreknowledge?

This is in the book that starts out: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

[Christian3]

[Cerebrum123]

I am

[tabibito]

And in the psalm ...
God saw his incomplete/unfinished body (a foetus) Hebrew: גֹּלֶם golem ... imperfect/incomplete/unfinished, of persons: a foetus
"were written" in the LXX is γραφησονται (grafesontai) which should (by everything I know) be a future passive ... will get written
likewise in the LXX
"the days will get molded/fashioned" πλασθησονται (plasthesontai) with the same codicil.
Given that I don't know Hebrew beyond a few words, I can't give any information about what the Hebrew texts themselves should say. However, I am reasonably confident that the Hebrew scholars who produced the Septuagint were fluent in both languages.

[tabibito]

I am

That is true enough.

[Christian3]

I am

You might be surprised how a Muslim would interpret this one.

I tell them to look at the reaction of the Jews because they knew exactly what Jesus was claiming.

[Cerebrum123]

You might be surprised how a Muslim would interpret this one.

I tell them to look at the reaction of the Jews because they knew exactly what Jesus was claiming.

Having had similar discussions with Muslims in the past, I doubt much would surprise me. Usually they just say this part was corrupted, and Jesus didn't really say that, or that I Am/YHWH isn't God's true name, so Jesus wasn't making a claim to deity there.

[tabibito]

Having had similar discussions with Muslims in the past, I doubt much would surprise me. Usually they just say this part was corrupted, and Jesus didn't really say that, or that I Am/YHWH isn't God's true name, so Jesus wasn't making a claim to deity there.

On that, they would be correct. It addresses the pre-existence of Christ, but not his deity.
Exd 3:14 - 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM (εγο ειμι - ego eimi) THAT I AM (ο ων - ho on[pron:own]): and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM (ο ων) hath sent me unto you.

In Koine Greek, the "divine name" is ο ων.