John 17:5 preexistence or foreknowledge?

[Christian3]

John 17:5 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence
with that glory I had with You
before the world existed.


Does this verse confirm Jesus' preexistence or God's foreknowledge?

Jeremiah:

4 The word of the Lord came to me:

5 I chose you before I formed you in the womb;
I set you apart before you were born.
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Thank you.

[Bill the Cat]

John 17:5 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence
with that glory I had with You
before the world existed.


Does this verse confirm Jesus' preexistence or God's foreknowledge?

Jeremiah:

4 The word of the Lord came to me:

5 I chose you before I formed you in the womb;
I set you apart before you were born.
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Thank you.

John 17:5 confirms the pre-existence of the Son while Jeremiah 4:5 confirms God's foreknowledge.

[tabibito]

και νυν δοξασον με συ πατερ παρα σεαυτω τη δοξη η ειχον προ του τον κοσμον ειναι παρα σοι
and - now - glorify - me - you - father - beside - yourself - to the - glory - that - I was holding - before - of the - the - cosmos - to be - beside - to you

Nothing there addresses foreknowledge (προγινωσκω)

προ του με πλασαι σε εν κοιλια επισταμαι σε και προ του σε εξελθειν εκ μητρας ηγιακα σε προφητην εις εθνη τεθεικα σε
before - of the - me - to form - you - in - abdominal cavity - I (fully) understand/comprehend - you - and - before - of the - you - to issue - from - of the womb - Ι have sanctified/set apart - you - prophet - to - the nations - I have appointed - you

Nothing there addresses preexistence. In fact - it addresses the lack of a preexistence.

[Joel]

John 17:5 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

5 Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence
with that glory I had with You
before the world existed.


Does this verse confirm Jesus' preexistence or God's foreknowledge?

This is in the book that starts out: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

[Christian3]

Thanks guys.

This is what I am dealing with from a Muslim:

If you trying to imply here that Jesus preexisted before the world was, then, you must understand that we all existed in the realm of God’s Mind and in His Plan BEFORE we even existed. This is clearly evidenced by God’s spoken Words to Jeremiah – “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” – Jeremiah 1:5, AND “Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be” – Psalm 139:16

[Cerebrum123]

Thanks guys.

This is what I am dealing with from a Muslim:

If you trying to imply here that Jesus preexisted before the world was, then, you must understand that we all existed in the realm of God’s Mind and in His Plan BEFORE we even existed. This is clearly evidenced by God’s spoken Words to Jeremiah – “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” – Jeremiah 1:5, AND “Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be” – Psalm 139:16

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

Here Jesus claimed to be God, and to preexist His time on earth as Jesus. He's claiming to be the "I AM" that revealed Himself to Moses at the burning bush.

[tabibito]

And in the psalm ...
God saw his incomplete/unfinished body (a foetus) Hebrew: גֹּלֶם golem ... imperfect/incomplete/unfinished, of persons: a foetus
"were written" in the LXX is γραφησονται (grafesontai) which should (by everything I know) be a future passive ... will get written
likewise in the LXX
"the days will get molded/fashioned" πλασθησονται (plasthesontai) with the same codicil.
Given that I don't know Hebrew beyond a few words, I can't give any information about what the Hebrew texts themselves should say. However, I am reasonably confident that the Hebrew scholars who produced the Septuagint were fluent in both languages.

[tabibito]

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

Here, Jesus claimed to preexist His time on earth as Jesus.

That is true enough.

[Christian3]

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

Here Jesus claimed to be God, and to preexist His time on earth as Jesus. He's claiming to be the "I AM" that revealed Himself to Moses at the burning bush.

You might be surprised how a Muslim would interpret this one.

I tell them to look at the reaction of the Jews because they knew exactly what Jesus was claiming.

[Cerebrum123]

You might be surprised how a Muslim would interpret this one.

I tell them to look at the reaction of the Jews because they knew exactly what Jesus was claiming.

Having had similar discussions with Muslims in the past, I doubt much would surprise me. Usually they just say this part was corrupted, and Jesus didn't really say that, or that I Am/YHWH isn't God's true name, so Jesus wasn't making a claim to deity there.

[tabibito]

Having had similar discussions with Muslims in the past, I doubt much would surprise me. Usually they just say this part was corrupted, and Jesus didn't really say that, or that I Am/YHWH isn't God's true name, so Jesus wasn't making a claim to deity there.

On that, they would be correct. It addresses the pre-existence of Christ, but not his deity.
Exd 3:14 - 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM (εγο ειμι - ego eimi) THAT I AM (ο ων - ho on[pron:own]): and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM (ο ων) hath sent me unto you.

In Koine Greek, the "divine name" is ο ων.