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  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    Motivation is none of your business during the first trimester, when the choice is the woman’s.
    That's akin to saying that it is none of our business when the mother leaves her newborn in a hot car with the windows rolled up since it's her choice.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Dr Davis is not talking science, and the science says that the nervous system necessary for the experience of pain is not developed until at least the 28th week, the third trimester.
      Dumbass,

      A 23 week old baby was born and survived. She had a fully functioning nervous system. Gee, I guess she WAS viable after all huh?

      https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ds/1276867001/

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Dumbass,

        A 23 week old baby was born and survived. She had a fully functioning nervous system. Gee, I guess she WAS viable after all huh?

        https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ds/1276867001/
        Now, now. Let's not let indisputable facts get in the way of opinions and theories that agree with what we want.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          So, he disagrees with your other source who says that pain occurs in the developed brain. Besides that, 20 weeks is still the 2nd trimester and 90 something percent of abortions take place in the first trimester. Most abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters are due to health concerns of the woman.
          You're floundering, Jimmy. Why don't you stick to something you actually know something about?
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            The above is confirmed by Kanwaljeet Anand, a professor of pediatrics, anesthesiology and neurobiology at the University of Tennessee Health Science Center. Anand's research reveals that pain may indeed occur in a fetus, through other neurobiological mechanisms than in an adult, at 20 weeks post-fertilization (and possibly before that) directly challenging the 2010 report from the British Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) that since "connections from the periphery to the cortex are not intact before 24 weeks of gestation and, as most neuroscientists believe that the cortex is necessary for pain perception, it can be concluded that the fetus cannot experience pain in any sense prior to this gestation."

            Please note that the RCOG's findings themselves question the 30 weeks claim.

            And then there is this:

            Source: Expert Tells Congress Unborn Babies Can Feel Pain Starting at 8 Weeks



            During a hearing on a bill that would ban late-term abortions nationwide, an expert on human embryonic development informed members of the committee that unborn babies have the capacity to feel pain as early as 8 weeks.

            Maureen Condic, Ph.D. is an Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah and obtained her Ph.D. from University of California, Berkeley. She is a widely published scientist whose works have appeared in a wide variety of peer-reviewed journals.

            “The earliest “rudiment” of the human nervous system forms by 28 days (four weeks) after sperm – egg fusion. At this stage, the primitive brain is already “patterned”; i.e. cells in different regions are specified to produce structures appropriate to their location in the nervous system as a whole,” she told lawmakers.

            Knowing the unborn child feels pain early in pregnancy, Condic says the question is what to do then.

            “Imposing pain on any pain-capable living creature is cruelty. And ignoring the pain experienced by another human individual for any reason is barbaric. We don’t need to know if a human fetus is self- reflective or even self- aware to afford it the same consideration we currently afford other pain – capable species. We simply have to decide whether we will choose to ignore the pain of the fetus or not,” she concludes.

            Read Dr. Condic’s full testimony at http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/...2005232013.pdf



            Source

            © Copyright Original Source



            And the article continues at the above link.



            The point being, it is anything but cut and dry.
            EGGzackly --- the people who want to get away with killing the unborn are just trying to expand the window of opportunity for the killing.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              You're floundering, Jimmy. Why don't you stick to something you actually know something about?
              That would be a WAY too restrictive set of topics.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                That would be a WAY too restrictive set of topics.
                We even have to eliminate light bulbs and sockets smiley snicker.gif

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  You're floundering, Jimmy. Why don't you stick to something you actually know something about?
                  Pontificating about stuff he has no idea about is about the only thing he does know something about.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                    Pontificating about stuff he has no idea about is about the only thing he does know something about.
                    I'm not sure he knows he's doing it.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      That's akin to saying that it is none of our business when the mother leaves her newborn in a hot car with the windows rolled up since it's her choice.
                      It’s not “akin” in any meaningful sense at all. The difference is between an insensate, non-viable fetus and a sentient newborn child.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        Is that a fact?


                        The old, uninformed notions that unborn and newborn babies could not feel pain are refuted by a growing body of scientific evidence. The published scientific literature shows that unborn babies can experience pain at 20 weeks gestational age (20 weeks LMP, since Last Menstrual Period, the fetal age estimate used by most obstetricians) or earlier.
                        Given that the vast majority of abortions are performed during the first 12 weeks, i.e. the first trimester, this is not an issue.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          It’s not “akin” in any meaningful sense at all. The difference is between an insensate, non-viable fetus and a sentient newborn child.
                          As been shown what you call an insensate, non-viable fetus and a sentient newborn child isn't nearly as distinct as you seem to think. A 23 week old baby was recently given birth to and survived. In your book that was impossible.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Given that the vast majority of abortions are performed during the first 12 weeks, i.e. the first trimester, this is not an issue.
                            Not to those aborted after. Do you accept the notion that the vast majority of firearms are never used illegally much less to would or kill so we shouldn't have any restrictions on them? And keep in mind how energetically the left is to push for third trimester abortions right up to the point of delivery.
                            Last edited by rogue06; 06-26-2019, 02:34 AM.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              As been shown what you call an insensate, non-viable fetus and a sentient newborn child isn't nearly as distinct as you seem to think. A 23 week old baby was recently given birth to and survived. In your book that was impossible.
                              My argument throughout concerns first-trimester abortions, i.e. up to 12 weeks when over 90% of abortions are performed, NOT 23 weeks. And the distinction between an insensate, non-viable fetus at 12 weeks and a sentient newborn child IS quite distinct.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Not to those aborted after. Do you accept the notion that the vast majority of firearms are never used illegally much less to would or kill so we shouldn't have any restrictions on them? And keep in mind how energetically the left is to push for third trimester abortions right up to the point of delivery.
                                R v W, which 60% want retained as is, already has provision for late term abortions in exceptional circumstances concerning the woman’s health or badly deformed fetuses. There is NOT an energetic push from the Left to remove all restrictions on abortions. This is a minority position.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                                Comment

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