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  1. #461
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Dr Davis is not talking science, and the science says that the nervous system necessary for the experience of pain is not developed until at least the 28th week, the third trimester.
    That's one opinion, but there are many others. You can't just pick the 'science' you like, and ignore all others.
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  2. #462
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    From Neurology Today...

    FETAL PAIN EXPERT DISAGREES WITH STUDY

    One expert on fetal pain, however, disagrees. Kanwaljeet S. Anand, MD, Professor of Pediatrics, Anesthesiology, Pharmacology, and Neurobiology at the University of Arkansas, asserts the human fetus can experience pain from at least 20 weeks after conception. The “gate theory” of pain first proposed in 1965 by psychologist Ronald Melzack and anatomist Patrick Wall, he contends, demonstrates that pain signals on their way to the brain produce the perception of pain even before they reach the cerebral cortex (Science 1965; 150:971–979).


    And he wears a turban, so he's more righter!!!

    anand.jpeg
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

  3. #463
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    From Neurology Today...

    FETAL PAIN EXPERT DISAGREES WITH STUDY

    One expert on fetal pain, however, disagrees. Kanwaljeet S. Anand, MD, Professor of Pediatrics, Anesthesiology, Pharmacology, and Neurobiology at the University of Arkansas, asserts the human fetus can experience pain from at least 20 weeks after conception. The “gate theory” of pain first proposed in 1965 by psychologist Ronald Melzack and anatomist Patrick Wall, he contends, demonstrates that pain signals on their way to the brain produce the perception of pain even before they reach the cerebral cortex (Science 1965; 150:971–979).


    And he wears a turban, so he's more righter!!!

    anand.jpeg
    So, he disagrees with your other source who says that pain occurs in the developed brain. Besides that, 20 weeks is still the 2nd trimester and 90 something percent of abortions take place in the first trimester. Most abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters are due to health concerns of the woman.

  4. #464
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    You are talking about legality, we are talking about motivation. Two different things.
    Motivation is none of your business during the first trimester, when the choice is the woman’s.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  5. #465
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Is that a fact?


    The old, uninformed notions that unborn and newborn babies could not feel pain are refuted by a growing body of scientific evidence. The published scientific literature shows that unborn babies can experience pain at 20 weeks gestational age (20 weeks LMP, since Last Menstrual Period, the fetal age estimate used by most obstetricians) or earlier.
    The above is confirmed by Kanwaljeet Anand, a professor of pediatrics, anesthesiology and neurobiology at the University of Tennessee Health Science Center. Anand's research reveals that pain may indeed occur in a fetus, through other neurobiological mechanisms than in an adult, at 20 weeks post-fertilization (and possibly before that) directly challenging the 2010 report from the British Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) that since "connections from the periphery to the cortex are not intact before 24 weeks of gestation and, as most neuroscientists believe that the cortex is necessary for pain perception, it can be concluded that the fetus cannot experience pain in any sense prior to this gestation."

    Please note that the RCOG's findings themselves question the 30 weeks claim.

    And then there is this:

    Source: Expert Tells Congress Unborn Babies Can Feel Pain Starting at 8 Weeks



    During a hearing on a bill that would ban late-term abortions nationwide, an expert on human embryonic development informed members of the committee that unborn babies have the capacity to feel pain as early as 8 weeks.

    Maureen Condic, Ph.D. is an Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah and obtained her Ph.D. from University of California, Berkeley. She is a widely published scientist whose works have appeared in a wide variety of peer-reviewed journals.

    “The earliest “rudiment” of the human nervous system forms by 28 days (four weeks) after sperm – egg fusion. At this stage, the primitive brain is already “patterned”; i.e. cells in different regions are specified to produce structures appropriate to their location in the nervous system as a whole,” she told lawmakers.

    Knowing the unborn child feels pain early in pregnancy, Condic says the question is what to do then.

    “Imposing pain on any pain-capable living creature is cruelty. And ignoring the pain experienced by another human individual for any reason is barbaric. We don’t need to know if a human fetus is self- reflective or even self- aware to afford it the same consideration we currently afford other pain – capable species. We simply have to decide whether we will choose to ignore the pain of the fetus or not,” she concludes.

    Read Dr. Condic’s full testimony at http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/...2005232013.pdf



    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    And the article continues at the above link.



    The point being, it is anything but cut and dry.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  6. #466
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Motivation is none of your business during the first trimester, when the choice is the woman’s.
    That's akin to saying that it is none of our business when the mother leaves her newborn in a hot car with the windows rolled up since it's her choice.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  7. Amen Bill the Cat amen'd this post.
  8. #467
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Dr Davis is not talking science, and the science says that the nervous system necessary for the experience of pain is not developed until at least the 28th week, the third trimester.
    Dumbass,

    A 23 week old baby was born and survived. She had a fully functioning nervous system. Gee, I guess she WAS viable after all huh?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ds/1276867001/

  9. Amen Bill the Cat amen'd this post.
  10. #468
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Dumbass,

    A 23 week old baby was born and survived. She had a fully functioning nervous system. Gee, I guess she WAS viable after all huh?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...ds/1276867001/
    Now, now. Let's not let indisputable facts get in the way of opinions and theories that agree with what we want.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  11. #469
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    So, he disagrees with your other source who says that pain occurs in the developed brain. Besides that, 20 weeks is still the 2nd trimester and 90 something percent of abortions take place in the first trimester. Most abortions in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters are due to health concerns of the woman.
    You're floundering, Jimmy. Why don't you stick to something you actually know something about?
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

  12. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    The above is confirmed by Kanwaljeet Anand, a professor of pediatrics, anesthesiology and neurobiology at the University of Tennessee Health Science Center. Anand's research reveals that pain may indeed occur in a fetus, through other neurobiological mechanisms than in an adult, at 20 weeks post-fertilization (and possibly before that) directly challenging the 2010 report from the British Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) that since "connections from the periphery to the cortex are not intact before 24 weeks of gestation and, as most neuroscientists believe that the cortex is necessary for pain perception, it can be concluded that the fetus cannot experience pain in any sense prior to this gestation."

    Please note that the RCOG's findings themselves question the 30 weeks claim.

    And then there is this:

    Source: Expert Tells Congress Unborn Babies Can Feel Pain Starting at 8 Weeks



    During a hearing on a bill that would ban late-term abortions nationwide, an expert on human embryonic development informed members of the committee that unborn babies have the capacity to feel pain as early as 8 weeks.

    Maureen Condic, Ph.D. is an Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah and obtained her Ph.D. from University of California, Berkeley. She is a widely published scientist whose works have appeared in a wide variety of peer-reviewed journals.

    “The earliest “rudiment” of the human nervous system forms by 28 days (four weeks) after sperm – egg fusion. At this stage, the primitive brain is already “patterned”; i.e. cells in different regions are specified to produce structures appropriate to their location in the nervous system as a whole,” she told lawmakers.

    Knowing the unborn child feels pain early in pregnancy, Condic says the question is what to do then.

    “Imposing pain on any pain-capable living creature is cruelty. And ignoring the pain experienced by another human individual for any reason is barbaric. We don’t need to know if a human fetus is self- reflective or even self- aware to afford it the same consideration we currently afford other pain – capable species. We simply have to decide whether we will choose to ignore the pain of the fetus or not,” she concludes.

    Read Dr. Condic’s full testimony at http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/...2005232013.pdf



    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    And the article continues at the above link.



    The point being, it is anything but cut and dry.
    EGGzackly --- the people who want to get away with killing the unborn are just trying to expand the window of opportunity for the killing.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

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