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Thread: Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

  1. #1311
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I don't know the history here, but if the Democrats "kicked god" out of their party platform, I applaud them.
    I'm shocked. Absolutely stunned.

    I think politics should be silent on the question of god - making those politics inclusive to all Americans. I don't think the Democrats (or any political party) should explicitly call out god, nor do I think they should explicitly make statements about god's non-existence. They should simply be silent and focus on the political/social issues facing our country.
    "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...."
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  2. #1312
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Zyzzyva
    That always makes me think of the Mossad agent on NCIS.

    ziva.jpg
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  3. #1313
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    Also ironic that his 'God that doesn't have a party' presumably wants all His good children to vote Democrat, or more specifically Buttigieg. If he really thought God didn't have a party, he wouldn't be making a deal out of his religiousity.
    Interesting. If an individual identifies with something that they perceive a majority of their potential constituents identify with, don't you think it is perfectly natural to call out the characteristic?

    We don't think twice if it's "I come from the working class, like you" or "I live in a small town, like you" or "I believe X, like you" or "I was born here, like you." So why not, "I'm Christian, like you?" Why is this held to a different standard?

    (And before someone calls out "inconsistent" between my previous post and this one - since this is the new theme - my last post was about formal party platforms and this post is about how a candidate self-identifies to their constituency. They are two different domains.)
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  4. #1314
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I'm shocked. Absolutely stunned.
    I thought you might be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...."
    Yeah - and isn't it interesting to note that as you go from the Declaration of Independence, to the Articles of Confederation, to the Constitution itself (which were created in that order), the references to god go from a few, to one, to none. Somehow, the Founding Fathers saw fit, for the charter document that governs how this country functions and against which all laws are assessed, to omit any reference to a supreme being. Then tacked on an amendment that explicitly forbids the government from adopting, creating, or endorsing a religion for good measure.

    Interesting, that.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  5. #1315
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That always makes me think of the Mossad agent on NCIS.

    ziva.jpg


    It DOES! Oh my....
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  6. #1316
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I thought you might be.



    Yeah - and isn't it interesting to note that as you go from the Declaration of Independence, to the Articles of Confederation, to the Constitution itself (which were created in that order), the references to god go from a few, to one, to none. Somehow, the Founding Fathers saw fit, for the charter document that governs how this country functions and against which all laws are assessed, to omit any reference to a supreme being. Then tacked on an amendment that explicitly forbids the government from adopting, creating, or endorsing a religion for good measure.

    Interesting, that.
    May 2014 - SCOTUS upholds prayer at government meetings -

    WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court on Monday narrowly upheld the centuries-old tradition of offering prayers to open government meetings, even if the prayers are overwhelmingly Christian and citizens are encouraged to participate.


    - interestinger, that!
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  7. #1317
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    May 2014 - SCOTUS upholds prayer at government meetings -

    WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court on Monday narrowly upheld the centuries-old tradition of offering prayers to open government meetings, even if the prayers are overwhelmingly Christian and citizens are encouraged to participate.


    - interestinger, that!
    Oh the horror! Imagine inviting folks to participate in a prayer. The fiends!
    smiley hair-fire.gif

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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  8. #1318
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Oh the horror! Imagine inviting folks to participate in a prayer. The fiends!
    smiley hair-fire.gif
    The prayer from this past Thursday at our Nation's Capitol ...

    06/13/2019
    Reverend Patrick J. Conroy, S.J.

    God our Father, we give You thanks for giving us another day.

    Bless the Members of this people's House as they gather at the end of another week in the Capitol. Endow each with the graces needed to attend to the issues of the day with wisdom, that the results of their efforts might benefit the citizens of our Nation and the world.

    We also ask Your blessing leading into this weekend upon fathers throughout our country. May they be their best selves and may their children appreciate fully the blessing they have been to them.

    May all that is done this day be for Your greater honor and glory. Amen.


    He asked God to Bless FATHERS!!!!! The HORRORS!!!!!
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  9. #1319
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    ...Then tacked on an amendment that explicitly forbids the government from adopting, creating, or endorsing a religion for good measure.
    That's a rather biased interpretation of the actual wording, and I'm not surprised you kinda sorta failed to include it (the actual wording), along with the 'prohibition' phrase.

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”


    So, you somehow managed to morph "respecting an establishment of religion" into "explicitly forbids the government from adopting, creating, or endorsing a religion", and you totally left out the part about "prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

    Carpe, seriously --- that's Tassman level work, and I'm disappointed in you.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  10. #1320
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    May 2014 - SCOTUS upholds prayer at government meetings -

    WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court on Monday narrowly upheld the centuries-old tradition of offering prayers to open government meetings, even if the prayers are overwhelmingly Christian and citizens are encouraged to participate.


    - interestinger, that!
    Theism is deeply rooted in our society and culture, CP. SCOTUS has made errors before. They upheld slavery - supported/defended eugenics (that law is still on the books) - and gave control of politics to big money. MOst of our society is still theistic, as are all the members of SCOTUS, AFAIK. It is no surprise that they will continue to see this as "acceptable," just as they continue to see "In God We Trust" on our money and "under god" in our pledge as acceptable.

    Those who control, and can impose their wills on others, seldom see their own actions as divisive - but they continually react as if their rights are being denied when someone begins to point it out and call for change. That was the basis for the Civil War. It was the argument against the Civil Rights legislation. It will be the argument against the government being silent on ALL forms of religion until that too gives way to a more equitable, inclusive, philosophy.

    The math is simple:

    Explicitly invoke god - you divide the theist from the atheist
    Explicitly deny god - you divide the theist from the atheist
    Be silent about god - you leave each to worship or not worship as they see fit, with no division.

    I would have no problem with a moment of silence at the start of any government gathering, so each can worship or reflect in concert with their own beliefs. To stand up and recite a prayer in the context of a government activity is to exclude part of the American population. To call out a particular god (i.e., Jesus, Allah, Jehovah, Vishnu etc.) is to endorse a particular religion.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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