Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

[Sparko]

He does claim to be a practicing Christian. He does so every time he refers to 'his faith' which is Episcopalian. If you want to find out if that means something, then go to a Muslim country hostile to Christian faith and say the same thing over and over again and see how that plays (are you considered Christian and do you suffer the abuse such a claim entails in a muslim country).

He identifies the faith of his church as HIS faith. That is all he needs to say. And it is consistent with what you can expect with how most Episcopalians I know would naturally express their faith outside of a direct challenge by someone that doubted the reality of their faith. He views himself as a Christian because Episcopalian is a Christian denomination and he is part of that church. Just like a Catholic will view themselves as a Christian because the RCC is part of the Christian Church (the only one with legitimate direct ties to Peter in their view I might add). In fact, most people in those churches will not comprehend how you can even ask the question: I am Episcopalian or I am Catholic is synonymous with I am a Christian. So your question and this entire thread - I would guess - would be something he'd find rather amusing, though I'm sure he would understand Christians that don't understand how he could be in a gay marriage and be professing himself a Christian. It would be hard not to get that as a reality.

Honestly, he doesn't need to recite the apostles creed before CNN for him to have a legitimate claim to being Christian. And you are not going to find most Episcopalians using the same terms and jargon that you find in a typical Evangelical church - they are very different expressions of Christian faith. But you could probably go to his church and hear him recite with his congregation a confession of faith and partake of communion if you really, really need that sort of direct proclamation to accept someone's self identification as Christian.

Now if you go there and during those parts of the service he does not participate, or it someone in the media asks him "are you really a Christian" and he is evasive - you might then have a point to make.


Jim

No Jim, he speaks in circles and reference his faith only when condemning others. I can't even find where he states he is a Christian, much less a Practicing one. He speaks about faith and church but it sounds more like someone who doesn't actually take it seriously or even understands what "practicing" means. It doesn't mean going to Church on Sundays.

And again, he might actually believe he is a practicing Christian, but he has NEVER publicly said it. And THAT is what Tassman claimed he did. But he didn't. That is Tassman making stuff up. Tassman does crap like that all the time. Just makes up "facts" to support his assertions and then can't back them up. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE UPSET ABOUT AND WHY WE HAVE BEEN HOLDING HIS FEET TO THE FIRE.

We just want Tassman to stop making stuff up, or at least admit he was wrong.

AGAIN, READ THE THREAD. WE WENT OVER ALL OF THE STUFF YOU ARE BRINGING UP PAGES AGO.

Sheesh.


And as far as Episcopalians expressing their faith openly, 1. Doesn't matter because we are discussing what Tassman CLAIMED Buttigieg said. and 2. KE7EJX is an Episcopalian here on Tweb and she is quite open about sharing her faith and claiming she is a Christian.

[Cow Poke]

Well, actually, from what I see, if "practicing" entails more than just going to church,

Got any evidence that Buttigieg even ATTENDS Church?

then very few of the self described christians are actually practicing christians anyway.

Buttigieg is not a "self described Christian" - he's a MEDIA described Christian!

So, can anyone tell me what CP meant in the first place by Buttigieg not being a "practicing christian."

A) You could always ask CP!
2) But CP never said he was NOT a "practicing Christian". CP merely lists the available evidence for and against, and has yet to see where Buttigieg himself makes that claim, or shows any 'fruit' of being a practicing Christian.

Question for you, Jimmy --- Why is it so necessary for an anti-Christian bigot like you to declare Buttigieg a Christian?

[Cow Poke]

Oh good grief - He attends church here:

Source: wikipedia

A member of the Episcopal Church, Buttigieg is a congregant at the Cathedral of St. James in downtown South Bend.

© Copyright Original Source

https://www.stjamessouthbend.org/

You turned "he's a congregant" (from a wiki article) into "he attends". And that's hardly the definition of "practicing Christian".

He's mayor of the town. Don't you suppose if he wasn't really a member there someone would have said something about it?

Being a member of a Church is not the same as attending, Jim.

And if you look at the picture of the congregation celebrating the Bishop's visit, I believe you will see Buttigieg standing to the left smiling.


Jim

A politician in a photo op. I'm SHOCKED.

[oxmixmudd]

No Jim, he speaks in circles and reference his faith only when condemning others. I can't even find where he states he is a Christian, much less a Practicing one. He speaks about faith and church but it sounds more like someone who doesn't actually take it seriously or even understands what "practicing" means. It doesn't mean going to Church on Sundays.

And again, he might actually believe he is a practicing Christian, but he has NEVER publicly said it. And THAT is what Tassman claimed he did. But he didn't. That is Tassman making stuff up. Tassman does crap like that all the time. Just makes up "facts" to support his assertions and then can't back them up. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE UPSET ABOUT AND WHY WE HAVE BEEN HOLDING HIS FEET TO THE FIRE.

We just want Tassman to stop making stuff up, or at least admit he was wrong.

AGAIN, READ THE THREAD. WE WENT OVER ALL OF THE STUFF YOU ARE BRINGING UP PAGES AGO.

Sheesh.


And as far as Episcopalians expressing their faith openly, 1. Doesn't matter because we are discussing what Tassman CLAIMED Buttigieg said. and 2. KE7EJX is an Episcopalian here on Tweb and she is quite open about sharing her faith and claiming she is a Christian.

Then you've wasted 170 pages arguing about a technicality that is irrelevant and in the end wrong. I just showed you where the man attends church, which hosts a picture of him and his husband in a gathering of the congregation around a visiting bishop. He is a practicing Christian, and he has in fact claimed to be just that by referring to HIS church and the tenets of HIS faith and by attending and being a member of a specific church congregation.

Your unwillingness to accept that as evidence and as his claim is silly.

Jim

[Cow Poke]

Then you've wasted 170 pages arguing about a technicality that is irrelevant and in the end wrong. I just showed you where the man attends church,

No, sir - you produced a wiki article that stated Buttigieg is a member.

which hosts a picture of him and his husband in a gathering of the congregation around a visiting bishop.

Which fits his brother-in-law's narrative that this is all about using his "faith" to advance his political career.

He is a practicing Christian, and he has in fact claimed to be just that by referring to HIS church and the tenets of HIS faith and by attending and being a member of a specific church congregation.

Your unwillingness to accept that as evidence and as his claim is silly.

Jim

Here's a CNN piece that shows Buttigieg's intent is for "Democrats to reclaim the faith", and in which he, again, attacks Pence.

[oxmixmudd]

You turned "he's a congregant" (from a wiki article) into "he attends". And that's hardly the definition of "practicing Christian".



Being a member of a Church is not the same as attending, Jim.



A politician in a photo op. I'm SHOCKED.

The picture, nor the website, seems say anything about him specifically. He was just there. And he's in the back and not at all prominent. And it's nothing more than a cell phone picture from what I can tell.

The most likely story is that he attends regularly enough to have been captured in this photo of a special event in the life of the church.

You're just being stubborn.


Jim

[Cow Poke]

The picture, nor the website, seems say anything about him specifically. He was just there. And he's in the back and not at all prominent. And it's nothing more than a cell phone picture from what I can tell.

The most likely story is that he attends regularly enough to have been captured in this photo of a special event in the life of the church.

You're just being stubborn.


Jim

I am always stubborn when seeking the truth, Jim.

What you have attempted to show is that Buttigieg is in attendance at a special event. Most Churches across our Nation have such "Christians".

So, my question for you --- why is it so necessary for you to believe that Buttigieg is a "practicing Christian"?

[Sparko]

Then you've wasted 170 pages arguing about a technicality that is irrelevant and in the end wrong. I just showed you where the man attends church, which hosts a picture of him and his husband in a gathering of the congregation around a visiting bishop. He is a practicing Christian, and he has in fact claimed to be just that by referring to HIS church and the tenets of HIS faith and by attending and being a member of a specific church congregation.

Your unwillingness to accept that as evidence and as his claim is silly.

Jim

Yes it was a "technicality" but we did it because...

1. We had the time to waste - this is theologyweb after all.
2. We wanted to see how long Tassman would drag this on without admitting he made something up.


And again, attending church is not all there is to being a "practicing Christian" - a practicing Christian would be someone who lives their life trying as best they can to follow Christ and the bible. He pretty much spits on that by being married to another man and ignoring what the bible says about homosexual behavior.

[Cow Poke]

Yes it was a "technicality" but we did it

1. Because we had the time to waste - this is theologyweb after all.
2. We wanted to see how long Tassman would drag this on without admitting he made something up.


And again, attending church is not all there is to being a "practicing Christian" - a practicing Christian would be someone who lives their life trying as best they can to follow Christ and the bible. He pretty much spits on that by being married to another man and ignoring what the bible says about homosexual behavior.

And he's an advocate for abortion without limits -- I thought that was something Ox stood against.

[Mountain Man]

Hate Trump? Far too strong a word.

In your case, not at all.

[Mountain Man]

Being a member of a Church is not the same as attending, Jim.

To be fair, some churches do have very strict rules for membership, and in these, regular attendance is often a requirement. But I suppose if ox is offering "church member" as evidence that Buttigieg regularly attends then it would behoove him to find the rules for membership of the church in question and see if attendance is a requirement. And then from there, he would need to find the current membership list and see if Mayor Pete is listed as a member in good standing.

[Cow Poke]

To be fair, some churches do have very strict rules for membership, and in these, regular attendance is often a requirement.

Yeah, but I think that's becoming rarer and rarer. I just had a discussion yesterday with a guy who was unhappy with his Church because he received a visit from the "pledge committee", and they wanted to discuss his family income so they could help him 'formulate his pledge".

But I suppose if ox is offering "church member" as evidence that Buttigieg regularly attends then it would behoove him to find the rules for membership of the church in question and see if attendance is a requirement. And then from there, he would need to find the current membership list and see if Mayor Pete is listed as a member in good standing.

I find it hard to believe that, if Buttigieg were actively attending the Church, the media wouldn't be shouting that from the rooftops.

Again, the nearest I can find about Buttigieg's Church membership is that he considers himself "more-or-less Anglican". And I've been hunting, trying to do Tassman's work for him, since he seems incapable.

[tabibito]

If the Episcopal church follows standard Anglican procedure, a member in good standing is someone who thrice took communion during the previous 12 months.

[Cow Poke]

If the Episcopal church follows standard Anglican procedure, a member in good standing is someone who thrice took communion during the previous 12 months.

Thrice? Is that anything like THREE?

In our church, that would pretty much qualify you as a CEO Christian.

[Cow Poke]

On a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT note (kinda)....

When somebody plays their "Christianity" for political expediency, it kinda reminds me of the "Garet Trooper"....