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Thread: Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

  1. #1391
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Indeed.


    What has become crystal clear is that you have no real evidence that Buttigeg considers himself to be a practicing/committed/devout Christian. All that you've presented is what some folks who don't know him hope he is. What they want him to be. But Buttigeg himself has been noticeably silent on the matter.
    The contention that Buttigieg is an active member of the Episcopalian Church is supported by numerous links of interviews with him that say so, many of which I have posted. These are interviews which quote his own words and they are consistent. I don’t think there is any doubt that he considers himself a Christian even if (predictably) some Evangelicals want to argue that he is not a REAL Christian.

    “Buttigieg is a devout Anglican, and has stated how his faith has been a strong influence on him. Buttigieg was baptized a Roman Catholic and attended a Catholic high school, but his family did not go to church often when he was growing up. While at Oxford he began to attend Christ Church, and by the time he returned to South Bend he felt “more-or-less Anglican”. He has cited St. Augustine, James Martin, and Garry Wills as among his religious influences. A member of the Episcopalian church, Buttigieg is a congregant at the Cathedral of St. James in downtown South Bend”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Buttigieg

    Yes, I know it’s Wiki but there are a lot of reference which can be followed up.

    You may choose to disbelieve Buttigieg or question his sincerely for your own reasons, but you cannot deny that he claims to be Christian.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  2. #1392
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    I attended an Anglican Boarding school for five years with daily Holy Communion, Matins and Evensong at which either the Nicene Creed (re the former) and the Apostles Creed (re the latter) were recited by the entire congregation as a statement of faith of one's belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ. Apart from the minority Evangelical wing of the Anglican Communion THIS is what counts as one's declaration of faith NOT the personal testimonies about how "Jesus saved you" that you lot consider to be the true mark of a Christian.

    So, whilst you haven't heard Buttigieg's personal declaration of his salvation bear in mind this is NOT What Anglicans/Episcopalians do. Nor do the majority of Christians worldwide. It's a characteristic of the minority Evangelicals who, until Vatican II, were considered by the majority church worldwide (the RCC) as heretics destined for 'hell'.
    You have confused simply stating that you are a Christian (which all Christians do) with providing personal testimony about becoming saved.

    Nothing more than yet another desperate attempt to move those goal posts.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  3. #1393
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    The contention that Buttigieg is an active member of the Episcopalian Church is supported by numerous links of interviews with him that say so, many of which I have posted. These are interviews which quote his own words and they are consistent. I don’t think there is any doubt that he considers himself a Christian even if (predictably) some Evangelicals want to argue that he is not a REAL Christian.

    “Buttigieg is a devout Anglican, and has stated how his faith has been a strong influence on him. Buttigieg was baptized a Roman Catholic and attended a Catholic high school, but his family did not go to church often when he was growing up. While at Oxford he began to attend Christ Church, and by the time he returned to South Bend he felt “more-or-less Anglican”. He has cited St. Augustine, James Martin, and Garry Wills as among his religious influences. A member of the Episcopalian church, Buttigieg is a congregant at the Cathedral of St. James in downtown South Bend”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Buttigieg

    Yes, I know it’s Wiki but there are a lot of reference which can be followed up.

    You may choose to disbelieve Buttigieg or question his sincerely for your own reasons, but you cannot deny that he claims to be Christian.
    I've been watching this thread for a while. I find myself a little curious. Why is it so important to you to defend Buttigieg's Christian bonafides? When entire Christian sects point to other sects and deny they are Christian, why (especially as an atheist) get caught up in an argument about who is or is not Christian?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  4. #1394
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I've been watching this thread for a while. I find myself a little curious. Why is it so important to you to defend Buttigieg's Christian bonafides? When entire Christian sects point to other sects and deny they are Christian, why (especially as an atheist) get caught up in an argument about who is or is not Christian?
    And, let's be clear - we're not (At least I'm not) even saying Buttigieg is NOT a Christian -- simply asking for any evidence that HE claims he is.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
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  5. #1395
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    And, let's be clear - we're not (At least I'm not) even saying Buttigieg is NOT a Christian -- simply asking for any evidence that HE claims he is.
    I think that it's safe to say this is obvious to all accept Tass.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  6. #1396
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    I attended an Anglican Boarding school for five years with daily Holy Communion, Matins and Evensong at which either the Nicene Creed (re the former) and the Apostles Creed (re the latter) were recited by the entire congregation as a statement of faith of one's belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ. Apart from the minority Evangelical wing of the Anglican Communion THIS is what counts as one's declaration of faith NOT the personal testimonies about how "Jesus saved you" that you lot consider to be the true mark of a Christian.
    Buttigieg can't even seem to make the claim that he's "a Christian", let alone a personal testimony of Salvation.

    So, whilst you haven't heard Buttigieg's personal declaration of his salvation
    Or him actually claiming to be "a practicing Christian".

    Thanks
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

  7. #1397
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    The contention that Buttigieg is an active member of the Episcopalian Church is supported by numerous links of interviews with him that say so, many of which I have posted.
    Provide your one BEST link, and the actual quote from it where Buttigieg claims to be an active member of the Episcopal (not Episcopalian) Church. You don't even know what the CHURCH is called, much less Buttigieg.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
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  8. #1398
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    And, let's be clear - we're not (At least I'm not) even saying Buttigieg is NOT a Christian -- simply asking for any evidence that HE claims he is.
    A quick search found this article and this article with a couple of facts and quotes from/about Buttigieg that seem to answer that question. According to the article:

    • He cites St. Augustine as a religious influence
    • He's an Episcopalian who studied under Sacvan Bercovitch
    • He was married in the Episcopal church
    • Quote: "I think it’s unfortunate [the Democratic Party] has lost touch with a religious tradition that I think can help explain and relate our values." (in an interview about his Christian roots)
    • Quote: "Thankfully, it (same-sex marriage) had been settled as far as our diocese was concerned by the time I got married, because I wanted to be married in the church, and I’m glad we were able to do that"
    • Quote: "Our right to practice our faith freely is respected up to the point where doing so involves harming others"
    • He calls himself "liturgically more conservative,"


    I can find no place where he utters the words "I am Christian." However, his actions and language seem (to me) to clearly indicate he self-identifies as Christian, specifically affiliated with the Episcopal church.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  9. Amen JimL, NorrinRadd, Tassman amen'd this post.
  10. #1399
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    I attended an Anglican Boarding school for five years with daily Holy Communion, Matins and Evensong at which either the Nicene Creed (re the former) and the Apostles Creed (re the latter) were recited by the entire congregation as a statement of faith of one's belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ. Apart from the minority Evangelical wing of the Anglican Communion THIS is what counts as one's declaration of faith NOT the personal testimonies about how "Jesus saved you" that you lot consider to be the true mark of a Christian.

    So, whilst you haven't heard Buttigieg's personal declaration of his salvation bear in mind this is NOT What Anglicans/Episcopalians do. Nor do the majority of Christians worldwide. It's a characteristic of the minority Evangelicals who, until Vatican II, were considered by the majority church worldwide (the RCC) as heretics destined for 'hell'.
    So you attended a religious boarding school as an atheist?

  11. #1400
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    A quick search found this article and this article with a couple of facts and quotes from/about Buttigieg that seem to answer that question. According to the article:

    • He cites St. Augustine as a religious influence
    • He's an Episcopalian who studied under Sacvan Bercovitch
    • He was married in the Episcopal church
    • Quote: "I think it’s unfortunate [the Democratic Party] has lost touch with a religious tradition that I think can help explain and relate our values." (in an interview about his Christian roots)
    • Quote: "Thankfully, it (same-sex marriage) had been settled as far as our diocese was concerned by the time I got married, because I wanted to be married in the church, and I’m glad we were able to do that"
    • Quote: "Our right to practice our faith freely is respected up to the point where doing so involves harming others"
    • He calls himself "liturgically more conservative,"


    I can find no place where he utters the words "I am Christian." However, his actions and language seem (to me) to clearly indicate he self-identifies as Christian, specifically affiliated with the Episcopal church.
    We are simply asking Tassman to backup HIS claim that Buttigieg claims to be a "Practicing Christian" - Tassman's words.

    We are tired of Tassman just making up crap and then can't back it up. That is all that this is about.

    From what we read, other people claim Buttigieg is a Christian and all Buttigieg has said is that he belongs to the Episcopal Church. As far as we can tell he thinks of Christianity and his Church as nothing but a country club and a weapon to beat up on people like Pence whom he disagrees with.

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