Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

[Cow Poke]

When you run out of actual responses...dismount with a personal slam.

Nice form...

Personal slam? You are arguing over the word "fear".

[carpedm9587]

Personal slam? You are arguing over the word "fear".

Yes. "You're always right" is a personal slam. You can go round and round with Tass for pages and pages, and you're not "always right," but if I make a proposition and then support it with argumentation, I'm "always right." You're not exactly the paragon of consistency.

I'm discussing the meaning of "homophobic" and its application. And I am challenging the substitution of "concern" for "fear," since I see them as tightly related. For some reason, the idea that people might be "fearful of X" appears to be a pejorative to you. I'm suggesting it doesn't have to be.

That being said, I am also aware that "homophobic" is tossed around by many in a condescending fashion.

One thing that is interesting in this exchange, is that my original post was about the people and time of the ancient near east, where homophobia seems to me to be very applicable. Somehow, that morphed into "making us sound like really bad people." I wasn't even talking about modern Christians.

That being said, as I noted, I hear a lot of fear-based language on this topic: diminish marriage, harm our youth, undermine morality, and the list goes on. I don't see why that makes anyone a "bad person." I have fears that Trump is normalizing some very ugly behavior. That fear doesn't make me a bad person. It just earns me the occasional "TDS" accusation.

[Cow Poke]

I'm discussing the meaning of "homophobic" and its application. And I am challenging the substitution of "concern" for "fear," since I see them as tightly related. For some reason, the idea that people might be "fearful of X" appears to be a pejorative to you. I'm suggesting it doesn't have to be.

I apologize... I temporarily grouped you in with anti-Christian bigot Tassman, and responded too harshly to you.

Many years ago, I made a choice not to live in fear. There are things about which I am concerned, but I don't fear them. I know a lot of people who seem to be consumed with fear, and I hate that.

That being said, I am also aware that "homophobic" is tossed around by many in a condescending fashion.

That was my point.

One thing that is interesting in this exchange, is that my original post was about the people and time of the ancient near east, where homophobia seems to me to be very applicable. Somehow, that morphed into "making us sound like really bad people." I wasn't even talking about modern Christians.

That being said, as I noted, I hear a lot of fear-based language on this topic: diminish marriage, harm our youth, undermine morality, and the list goes on.

I'm guessing we're not going to agree on this, and willing to admit it's probably MY perspective, but I don't see 'concern' about those things being the same thing as 'fear', particularly in regards to your analogy of the spider.

I don't see why that makes anyone a "bad person." I have fears that Trump is normalizing some very ugly behavior. That fear doesn't make me a bad person. It just earns me the occasional "TDS" accusation.

The whole point, which you have already acknowledged, is that, and I quote ""homophobic" is tossed around by many in a condescending fashion". WHY is that term used? What's the purpose of "condescension" in that regard?

[Cow Poke]

Yes. "You're always right" is a personal slam. You can go round and round with Tass for pages and pages, and you're not "always right," but if I make a proposition and then support it with argumentation, I'm "always right." You're not exactly the paragon of consistency.

While you were typing (editing?) this, I was apologizing. And it appears this is an addition to the post to which I have already responded.

[Cow Poke]

It was, actually. Christian slaveholders used the bible to justify slavery.

This is where you, again, demonstrate your profound ignorance, and your determination to show your anti-Christian hostility, Tass. You seem to be incapable of comprehending that "some people" (or even MANY people) acting out of their own greed, does not represent the organization as a whole, particularly with regards to that organization's official policies and beliefs.

The Southern Baptist Convention never endorsed a bad interpretation of scripture to justify slavery. And I'm the one who brought up the misrepresented "curse of Ham" that you subsequently tried to use as proof of your idiotic claims.

[carpedm9587]

I apologize... I temporarily grouped you in with anti-Christian bigot Tassman, and responded too harshly to you.

Acknowledged. Fortunately, I have never behaved inappropriately here and have never had to apologize.

Many years ago, I made a choice not to live in fear. There are things about which I am concerned, but I don't fear them. I know a lot of people who seem to be consumed with fear, and I hate that.

That was my point.



I'm guessing we're not going to agree on this, and willing to admit it's probably MY perspective, but I don't see 'concern' about those things being the same thing as 'fear', particularly in regards to your analogy of the spider.

I simply took another "phobia" and pointed to the error in assuming "fear" suggests "bad." That being said, I find your use of "concern" odd. So try this: pick something you have a concern about and explain the basis of your concern without any reference to fear or a fear synonym. I think, if you try to do that, you'll see what I am saying.

I also draw a distinction between "experiencing fear" and "living in fear." For me, the person who experiences fear is simply experiencing a normal human emotion. The person who lives in fear is letting their fear dictate their choices. The former has nothing to do with being a bad person. The latter can lead us into doing some pretty bad things.

The whole point, which you have already acknowledged, is that, and I quote ""homophobic" is tossed around by many in a condescending fashion". WHY is that term used? What's the purpose of "condescension" in that regard?

I'm not sure what purpose people have in using it condescendingly. I know I prefer to call a thing what it is. It is perfectly natural for us to fear the unknown. We have never had a world that sees homosexuals and homosexuality as "merely another way of being." The shift to that perspective and its impact on our world and society as a whole is an "unknown." For those on the right to make that shift would require a fundamental change in their religious beliefs - which is also an unknown (to them). That all of this would be accompanied by some degree of fear is perfectly natural. Indeed, if the shift happens wholesale in society, which it appears to be well on the way to doing, even the person who does not make the shift will find themselves moving from the majority to the minority - another change to be adjusted to, and possibly to fear.

That is how (and why) I use the term.

[seer]

I wish there was a way to run an experiment to uncover how much a person's interpretation and selection of passages is related to their pre-existing ideas and priorities, and simply serves to re-affirm them....

That would apply to almost anything, and everyone...

[Cow Poke]

That would apply to almost anything, and everyone...

I think we would discover two basic categories...

A) Those who agreed that their interpretations may be based on their own pre-existing ideas and priorities, and
2) Those who were not honest (or aware) enough to realize that their interpretations may be based on their own pre-existing ideas and priorities

[seer]

I think we would discover two basic categories...

A) Those who agreed that their interpretations may be based on their own pre-existing ideas and priorities, and
2) Those who were not honest (or aware) enough to realize that their interpretations may be based on their own pre-existing ideas and priorities

To be honest, I'm not sure where my pre-existing ideas or priorities are at odds with any text. Just the opposite, I try to let the texts change my pre-existing ideas or priorities.

[carpedm9587]

That would apply to almost anything, and everyone...

Of course. That's pretty much the point.

[carpedm9587]

To be honest, I'm not sure where my pre-existing ideas or priorities are at odds with any text. Just the opposite, I try to let the texts change my pre-existing ideas or priorities.

I find my little alarm goes off when someone starts a sentence, "to be honest."

[seer]

I find my little alarm goes off when someone starts a sentence, "to be honest."

Just stating facts. For instance, it took me a couple of years to accept the idea that fornication (sexual relations outside the covenant of marriage) was not moral - Biblically. My personal bias did not want that to be the case. Along with getting high or three sheets to the wind.

[Cow Poke]

I find my little alarm goes off when someone starts a sentence, "to be honest."

Or, "to be perfectly honest"... you mean you weren't BEFORE!?!?!?

[carpedm9587]

Or, "to be perfectly honest"... you mean you weren't BEFORE!?!?!?

My favorite is "to be frank..."

Its especially funny when spoken by a woman...

[carpedm9587]

Just stating facts. For instance, it took me a couple of years to accept the idea that fornication (sexual relations outside the covenant of marriage) was not moral - Biblically. My personal bias did not want that to be the case. Along with getting high or three sheets to the wind.

In my experience, it is when I am most congratulating myself on not being subject to confirmation bias that I am most likely to find that I am subject to confirmation bias.

Just sayin...