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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
nail. smoke. tree.
I am trying NOT to do that this time and giving him an opportunity to set me straight about what he thinks the article meant and how it applies to Buttigieg.
If he doesn't he has no excuse the next time he accuses anyone of mindreading and misunderstanding him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHe always accuses me of mindreading him.
I am trying NOT to do that this time and giving him an opportunity to set me straight about what he thinks the article meant and how it applies to Buttigieg.
If he doesn't he has no excuse the next time he accuses anyone of mindreading and misunderstanding him.
I'm guessing..... well, let me hold off on that, and see if he actually answers, or just keeps linking to previous confusing statements.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOK, lemme try again.
The argument by weblink you posted contains a line that says "The passage can be divided easily into its three parts: giving to the needy, prayer, and fasting." Those are three distinct 'practices' which may well be 'secret' for a Christian.
How does that have anything to do with Buttigieg never being on record (as far as we can tell) as identifying as a "practicing Christian", which was what Tassman declared he did.
That was a joke, for the comically challenged.
So here is a possibility. Giving to the needy, prayer, and fasting could be what Buttigieg sees as the hallmarks of a "practicing Christian," which arguably they are. It is possible claiming the banner "practicing Christian" is, to him, simply an attempt to shine a spotlight on these practices, so he eschews this terminology and these claims. It's the difference between "look at me - I'm a practicing Christian" versus living his faith and speaking the messages he believes Christianity is about.
Or it is possible he is actually just giving lip service to his Christianity for political purposes.
Or...(insert other possibility here)
To assume one or the other is to attempt to read the mind/heart of the man, IMO. He clearly has no problem talking about his faith, and there is nothing in the quoted passage (or article) that suggests "a Christian should not talk about his/her faith." How anyone got that from anything I posted, I have no idea.Last edited by carpedm9587; 06-19-2019, 01:54 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostThen what did you mean when you said:
I don't understand how else to interpret your phrasing of "adhering to the passage," if you aren't claiming that it teaches exactly that.
How you folks jumped from my posts to "Carpe thinks Christians are supposed to be silent/sneaky about their faith" I have no idea. Only you guys can explain that. It seems to me to be part and parcel of conflating "disagreeing" with "mocking."The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAdhering to the passage (and article) which specifically cites prayer, giving, and fasting. I would include in that participating in the community, which involves attending services (praying) and supporting the community (giving).
How you folks jumped from my posts to "Carpe thinks Christians are supposed to be silent/sneaky about their faith" I have no idea. Only you guys can explain that. It seems to me to be part and parcel of conflating "disagreeing" with "mocking."I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostI was just trying to understand you better. I didn't say anything about disagreeing vs mocking.
ETA: I think I just invented the word "conflation."The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostWait...you think I actually READ the article?
That was a joke, for the comically challenged.
So here is a possibility. Giving to the needy, prayer, and fasting could be what Buttigieg sees as the hallmarks of a "practicing Christian," which arguably they are.
A) he is campaigning on the foundation of taking MY money to give to the poor, etc. That's in no way scriptural.
2) he has already publicly dissed the whole concept of prayer - it really doesn't do anything.
C) "fasting"? If the man doesn't believe that prayer does anything, why would he engage in fasting.
It is possible claiming the banner "practicing Christian" is, to him, simply an attempt to shine a spotlight on these practices, so he eschews this terminology and these claims.
Or it is possible he is actually just giving lip service to his Christianity for political purposes.
Or...(insert other possibility here)
To assume one or the other is to attempt to read the mind/heart of the man, IMO.
What he declares in public raises huge problems in the face of his silence on matters of the faith.
But I DO appreciate this apparent honest attempt to finally directly answer the question, albeit incredibly weakly and ineffectively.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAgreed - and I did not mean to imply that you were the one who made this conflation. That was Sparko's contribution. I should have been clearer.
ETA: I think I just invented the word "conflation."The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAdhering to the passage (and article) which specifically cites prayer, giving, and fasting. I would include in that participating in the community, which involves attending services (praying) and supporting the community (giving).
How you folks jumped from my posts to "Carpe thinks Christians are supposed to be silent/sneaky about their faith" I have no idea. Only you guys can explain that. It seems to me to be part and parcel of conflating "disagreeing" with "mocking."
(or was this not sarcasm?)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostWait...you think I actually READ the article?
That was a joke, for the comically challenged.
So here is a possibility. Giving to the needy, prayer, and fasting could be what Buttigieg sees as the hallmarks of a "practicing Christian," which arguably they are. It is possible claiming the banner "practicing Christian" is, to him, simply an attempt to shine a spotlight on these practices, so he eschews this terminology and these claims. It's the difference between "look at me - I'm a practicing Christian" versus living his faith and speaking the messages he believes Christianity is about.
Or it is possible he is actually just giving lip service to his Christianity for political purposes.
Or...(insert other possibility here)
To assume one or the other is to attempt to read the mind/heart of the man, IMO. He clearly has no problem talking about his faith, and there is nothing in the quoted passage (or article) that suggests "a Christian should not talk about his/her faith." How anyone got that from anything I posted, I have no idea.
There is nothing that says being a practicing Christian has to be done in secret. We are to be open about being Christian. What the article is talking about is not to do your good deeds in order to gain the approval of men, but to do them to get the approval of God. Think of the TV preachers who dress up in fancy suits and fly in fancy planes and brag about how they have healed people on TV and so on.
So there would be nothing to stop Buttigieg from proclaiming his faith openly or doing good deeds. Just don't use them to promote himself, but to promote God.
But again I just want to point out that I don't know if he is a practicing Christian or not. Just that he hasn't made a point of mentioning it, even though Tassman said he did. He seems to "walk around" it. Much like getting you to give a straight answer
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOK, here's a major problem with that --
A) he is campaigning on the foundation of taking MY money to give to the poor, etc. That's in no way scriptural.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post2) he has already publicly dissed the whole concept of prayer - it really doesn't do anything.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostC) "fasting"? If the man doesn't believe that prayer does anything, why would he engage in fasting.
BTW - if you are going to use A), and 2), then the third options should be III or iii. Please get your confusion straight!
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYou're REALLY reaching here, and with no basis in fact.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat's what his own brother-in-law suggests, and attacking others for THEIR faith while claiming he doesn't do that....
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAs I've already noted, we (Christians) are to be "fruit inspectors", and I'm seeing no fruit from Buttigieg that would suggest he's a "practicing Christian". And I don't have to "read the mind/heart" of a man who is openly (at times) advocating for abortion with no limits, and choosing to live in rebellion to the teaching of the Scripture.
What he declares in public raises huge problems in the face of his silence on matters of the faith.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostBut I DO appreciate this apparent honest attempt to finally directly answer the question, albeit incredibly weakly and ineffectively.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI really needed a laugh. Thanks, Carpe!
(or was this not sarcasm?)The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNope, you just stumbled upon it.
However, I did my own checking and it is a perfectly valid word.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostOK thanks, but the article isn't about what "makes a practicing Christian" - it is about what should be done in "secret"
Originally posted by Sparko View PostThere is nothing that says being a practicing Christian has to be done in secret. We are to be open about being Christian. What the article is talking about is not to do your good deeds in order to gain the approval of men, but to do them to get the approval of God. Think of the TV preachers who dress up in fancy suits and fly in fancy planes and brag about how they have healed people on TV and so on.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostSo there would be nothing to stop Buttigieg from proclaiming his faith openly or doing good deeds. Just don't use them to promote himself, but to promote God.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostBut again I just want to point out that I don't know if he is a practicing Christian or not. Just that he hasn't made a point of mentioning it, even though Tassman said he did. He seems to "walk around" it. Much like getting you to give a straight answer
And you asked earlier got examples of right-side identity politics - and here is one of them.
ETA: And I have now hung out here FAR longer than intended, and FAR exceeded my level of interest. I'll leave the last words to y'all.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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