Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

[Cow Poke]

Me thinks you doth protest too much.


Jim

Tassman! How did you manage to hack Ox's account?

Bless your heart.

[oxmixmudd]

Tassman! How did you manage to hack Ox's account?

Bless your heart.

Now you are just being weird.

Jim

[Cow Poke]

Now you are just being weird.

Jim

Jim, you're acting exactly like Tassman. Good luck with that.

[oxmixmudd]

Jim, you're acting exactly like Tassman. Good luck with that.

I don't think so Tim.

You have developed some sort of very irrational way of interacting with me CP. Not sure what to do to help you out of it.

But there is nothing consistent about the stance you and others have taken on the thread on police and racism in the other thread and how you guys ganged up on buttigieg as he struggles with a blowup over the same issue in his community. If you were being consistent, the reaction would have been more of understanding what a difficult position he's in and maybe something along the lines of how even those that are known to cater to the black community can't get a rational conversation on the issue.



Jim

[Tassman]

A) No, it does NOT seem by all accounts that Buttigieg is a practicing Christian

It does, actually.

[Tassman]

Buttigieg DOES claim to be a practicing Christian - why would that have taken 150 pages? Do you suppose he goes to church because he DOESN'T claim to be a Christian?

Jim

Of course he does but it doesn't fit the CP narrative, hence the denial and red-herrings.

[Raphael]

Buttigieg DOES claim to be a practicing Christian - why would that have taken 150 pages? Do you suppose he goes to church because he DOESN'T claim to be a Christian?

Jim

I know atheists and agnostics who go to church, heck we have some Anglican churches here in NZ where the vicar is an avowed atheist (which seriously annoys a number of very Christian Anglicans I know).

my former Prime Minister John Key, an agnostic Jew, went to Church because he felt it was the right thing to do for his kids, not because he was a Christian (and he never claimed to be a Christian).

[Raphael]

I find this a little curious because I hear this sort of thing all of the time, and I guess it just hasn't been my experience. My experience (at least in the churches I've belonged to) has been that sex before marriage and adultery are MAJOR themes in church sermons .

The Church group I have been involved with for the previous 8 years I can't recall a singular sermon addressing sex before marriage (and one or two that address adultery, but more as part of a sermon on marriage overall). With having moved to a new city recently I have joined a new church so can't comment yet.
Individual youths will get a talking to, normally after they have got into trouble.

The churches I've attended rarely talk about homosexuality, mostly because the big sins among your average person coming into the church (especially for the first time) are typically sleeping around/sex out side of marriage type stuff.

Not really talked about in the Church I have been a part of, but we do have Brian Tamaki who blamed the Christchurch and Kiakora earthquakes on homosexuals (well not exactly).
We do have the big outcry against Isreal Falou for tweeting that "drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters" (i.e. everyone) would go to hell without repenting and turning to Jesus. this has lead to a sustained attack on Falou and Christians who believe the same (so like me) by the MSM leading a lot of Christians to keep their heads down on the topic.
Video also surfaced of Falou, preaching at his AoG church, saying that Satan is behind the push for kids to undergo transgender treatment (i.e. hormones and surgery). Again a position I agree with.

Maybe the difference is that the churches I attend tend to talk to the people in the pew (so to speak, I haven't been a church with actual "pews" in ages). The only thing I don't see more talk on is divorce. They'll have special marriage conferences, but divorce in general is kinda shrugged at more than it should be. I think that's because, even though Jesus speaks directly on it, there's still a bit of confusion in the church about when it's okay to have one, and then there's probably not enough discussion about whether or not you can remarry, and that sort of thing.

yeah, same here, not really talked about apart from conferences, and marriage and post divorce cources (that is trying to bring healing to the situation afterwards ... has resulted in more than one reconciliation I know of)

There have been plenty of people struggling with homosexuality that have found their way into the churches I've attended, but they count for, what? 1-2% of the congregation? Spending lots of time talking about it just doesn't really make sense. I really only see homosexuality dealt with on a broader scale when it comes to other formats like blogs, magazine articles, radio shows, and online, and it's not because its considered a worse sin than adultery or sex before marriage, but because it's one of very few sins that are heavily celebrated. Outside of Ashley Madison, adultery still hasn't got to the point in our culture where people are actively celebrating it, and while sleeping around is celebrated, there's still a tiny bit of secular stigma left to having lots and lots of partners.

Adultery isn't really celebrated here, but unless you're in church leadership, when it does come to light publically in NZ it's treated with a shrug of "consenting adults" (if it's a Church Leader the MSM will report it gleefully)

[oxmixmudd]

I know atheists and agnostics who go to church, heck we have some Anglican churches here in NZ where the vicar is an avowed atheist (which seriously annoys a number of very Christian Anglicans I know).

my former Prime Minister John Key, an agnostic Jew, went to Church because he felt it was the right thing to do for his kids, not because he was a Christian (and he never claimed to be a Christian).

You make a good point. I too have known those that actually say they are agnostic but faithfully attend churches and bible studies. So I would have to agree church attendence itself is not a sufficient evidence.

But none of those people I know would allow a person to proclaim them 'Christian' to others.

So it seems a bit absurd to think with so much being made of him being both gay and christian that he would sit back and tacitly agree, and even say things to help encourage the idea if he were not. The LBG community doesnt mix all that well in general with 'church". The people I know that are gay and that have struggled with what that means as regards whether or not they can remain christian and how that works out, regardless of which side of the argument they land on (affirming/nonaffirming of sexual acts) are clear they believe themselves to be practicing Christians.

I know there would be many debates about if he can be christian and gay and affirming of gay relationships, but it seems silly to try to decide for him if he considers himself Christian. It would be up to him to deny the reporting if he does not actually consider himself such, not up to others. And it is generally not adventageous to him to allow that reporting to go unchecked if it were not true. It would tend to make him suspect in both christian and non christian circles.

Jim

[Sparko]

Buttigieg DOES claim to be a practicing Christian - why would that have taken 150 pages? Do you suppose he goes to church because he DOESN'T claim to be a Christian?

Jim

Great, then just provide us with a quote where he DOES claim to be a practicing Christian. And plenty of people go to church who aren't any kind of Christian, much less a practicing one. Also Buttigieg has mentioned he hasn't been going to church much. You might just want to read those 150 pages because we covered all this in them.

[oxmixmudd]

Great, then just provide us with a quote where he DOES claim to be a practicing Christian. And plenty of people go to church who aren't any kind of Christian, much less a practicing one. Also Buttigieg has mentioned he hasn't been going to church much. You might just want to read those 150 pages because we covered all this in them.

I dont think there needs to be a quote Sparko.

But I am curious why you think the media would invent such a claim, and why buttifieg wouldnt deny it if it were not true.

Jim

[seer]

I know atheists and agnostics who go to church, heck we have some Anglican churches here in NZ where the vicar is an avowed atheist (which seriously annoys a number of very Christian Anglicans I know).

Yes, my church is in an old farming community, and a couple of the old farmers come because they always did - but they certainly are not believers.

[Cow Poke]

It does, actually.

Just repeating the same thing over and over does not make it true.

[Mountain Man]

I know atheists and agnostics who go to church, heck we have some Anglican churches here in NZ where the vicar is an avowed atheist (which seriously annoys a number of very Christian Anglicans I know).

my former Prime Minister John Key, an agnostic Jew, went to Church because he felt it was the right thing to do for his kids, not because he was a Christian (and he never claimed to be a Christian).

As the late Keith Green said, "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going to McDonald's makes you hamburger."

[Mountain Man]

I am curious why you think the media would invent such a claim, and why buttifieg wouldnt deny it if it were not true.

Because they think that "homosexual Christian" plays well politically.