Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

[Cow Poke]

Great, then just provide us with a quote where he DOES claim to be a practicing Christian.

Ox is allowing the leftist media to determine who is a Christian, regardless of any lack of claim by the person they identify.

And plenty of people go to church who aren't any kind of Christian, much less a practicing one. Also Buttigieg has mentioned he hasn't been going to church much. You might just want to read those 150 pages because we covered all this in them.

Buttigieg also

expresses a very low view of prayer,
he's chosen to live a life in rebellion to God's Word,
he points out that neither of his parents ever attended Church much,
he claims to be "more-or-less" Anglican,
his own brother-in-law seems to think his 'faith' is a sham for political expediency,
he's openly advocating abortion with no limits...

--- Perhaps this is the type of "Christian" Ox reveres.

[Cow Poke]

Because they think that "homosexual Christian" plays well politically.

And, Buttigieg uses is "faith" to attack Trump and Pence. That's why Ox is defending Buttigieg - they share a mutual hatred for Trump.

[oxmixmudd]

While it does seem difficult to find a direct confession of a sort one might expect from a billy graham, buttigieg is episcipalian - and such is not generally their way unless asked directly, not likely in public media. There are a large number of quotes where he references HIS faith and faith tradition and how the Bible guides his thinking.

Since his 'faith tradtion' is documented as Episcipalian, and unless you believe Episcipaliens dont consider themselves to be Christians, then it is simply rhetoric, and a mean rhetoric at that, to claim he secretly doesnt consider himself to be Christian.

To use an oft abused phrase gere on TWEB, by what technique have you acquired these mind reading skills that you know he is engaged in such willful deception?

Jim

[Cow Poke]

...and unless you believe Episcipaliens dont consider themselves to be Christians...

but they're extraterrestrial?

[Cow Poke]

While it does seem difficult to find a direct confession of a sort one might expect from a billy graham...

Tassman's claim was that Buttigieg, himself, claimed to be a "practicing Christian" - no such evidence has been produced. Not even close.

You are the “mind reader” by insisting that Buttigieg ignores scripture he doesn't like. You don’t know that. He is an intelligent, well-educated, practicing Christian.

But he, as a practicing Christian, denies that homosexual conduct a sin.

My argument was that the interpretation of scripture varies e.g. the likes of Buttigieg, as a practicing Christian, interprets scripture in such a way that homosexuality is OK with a loving God.

Just as the likes of Buttigieg, as a practicing Christian, interpret scripture in such a way that homosexuality is OK with a loving God.

And the likes of Buttigieg, as a practicing Christian, interpret scripture in such a way that homosexuality is OK with a loving God, just as the likes of the former slavery justifying SBC proclaim the very opposite.

I don’t care whether or not Buttigieg is a “practicing Christian” but he does, and this is the argument in the face of Evangelical objections that he is not.

Buttigieg claims to be a “practicing Christian”...maybe not as an Evangelical understands that term but as he does. .... How is this not a claim to be a "practicing Christian"?

He may not be a “practicing Christian”...

[Mountain Man]

Tassman's claim was that Buttigieg, himself, claimed to be a "practicing Christian" - no such evidence has been produced. Not even close.

Yeah, but it totally sounds like something a practicing Christian would say, so logic demands that Buttigieg necessarily said it at some point even if it's not documented.

Right? Right?

[Sparko]

I dont think there needs to be a quote Sparko.

Yes, there does, Jim. Because the whole discussion centers around Tassman assertng that Buttigieg CLAIMED to be a Practicing Christian! That is what we are arguing about: Tassman making up crap and then not being able to back it up. It is about Tassman's lie not about Buttigieg.

So if you want to help Tassman out and find a quote where Buttigieg claims to be a "practicing Christian" then by all means, help him. Otherwise Tassman is a liar. And rather than admitting he misspoke or lied, he dragged it on for 150 pages, and kept changing his story about what he originally said and we kept calling him on it.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, but it totally sounds like something a practicing Christian would say, so logic demands that Buttigieg necessarily said it at some point even if it's not documented.

Right? Right?

Well, he's apparently a secret agent Christian, so...

[Cow Poke]

Yes, there does, Jim. Because the whole discussion centers around Tassman assertng that Buttigieg CLAIMED to be a Practicing Christian! That is what we are arguing about: Tassman making up crap and then not being able to back it up. It is about Tassman's lie not about Buttigieg.

So if you want to help Tassman out and find a quote where Buttigieg claims to be a "practicing Christian" then by all means, help him. Otherwise Tassman is a liar. And rather than admitting he misspoke or lied, he dragged it on for 150 pages, and kept changing his story about what he originally said and we kept calling him on it.

It amazes me how Tassman thinks he can claim that was never his point, yet it's all there in 1's and 0's. He has the credibility of pond scum. But, hey, he hates Trump, so he and Ox and Buttigieg have that in common.

[oxmixmudd]

Yes, there does, Jim. Because the whole discussion centers around Tassman assertng that Buttigieg CLAIMED to be a Practicing Christian! That is what we are arguing about: Tassman making up crap and then not being able to back it up. It is about Tassman's lie not about Buttigieg.

So if you want to help Tassman out and find a quote where Buttigieg claims to be a "practicing Christian" then by all means, help him. Otherwise Tassman is a liar. And rather than admitting he misspoke or lied, he dragged it on for 150 pages, and kept changing his story about what he originally said and we kept calling him on it.

He does claim to be a practicing Christian. He does so every time he refers to 'his faith' which is Episcopalian. If you want to find out if that means something, then go to a Muslim country hostile to Christian faith and say the same thing over and over again and see how that plays (are you considered Christian and do you suffer the abuse such a claim entails in a muslim country).

He identifies the faith of his church as HIS faith. That is all he needs to say. And it is consistent with what you can expect with how most Episcopalians I know would naturally express their faith outside of a direct challenge by someone that doubted the reality of their faith. He views himself as a Christian because Episcopalian is a Christian denomination and he is part of that church. Just like a Catholic will view themselves as a Christian because the RCC is part of the Christian Church (the only one with legitimate direct ties to Peter in their view I might add). In fact, most people in those churches will not comprehend how you can even ask the question: I am Episcopalian or I am Catholic is synonymous with I am a Christian. So your question and this entire thread - I would guess - would be something he'd find rather amusing, though I'm sure he would understand Christians that don't understand how he could be in a gay marriage and be professing himself a Christian. It would be hard not to get that as a reality.

Honestly, he doesn't need to recite the apostles creed before CNN for him to have a legitimate claim to being Christian. And you are not going to find most Episcopalians using the same terms and jargon that you find in a typical Evangelical church - they are very different expressions of Christian faith. But you could probably go to his church and hear him recite with his congregation a confession of faith and partake of communion if you really, really need that sort of direct proclamation to accept someone's self identification as Christian.

Now if you go there and during those parts of the service he does not participate, or it someone in the media asks him "are you really a Christian" and he is evasive - you might then have a point to make.


Jim

[oxmixmudd]

It amazes me how Tassman thinks he can claim that was never his point, yet it's all there in 1's and 0's. He has the credibility of pond scum. But, hey, he hates Trump, so he and Ox and Buttigieg have that in common.

Hate Trump? Far too strong a word. Do I think he's a danger to the country and all sorts of other problematic things - yes. Do I think he's caused a large number of Evangelical Christians to do great harm to the faith by supporting him - yes. But hatred involves thoughts and emotions that I do not have towards Donald Trump.


Jim

[Adrift]

The Church group I have been involved with for the previous 8 years I can't recall a singular sermon addressing sex before marriage (and one or two that address adultery, but more as part of a sermon on marriage overall). With having moved to a new city recently I have joined a new church so can't comment yet.

Yikes. Well, here's hoping that this new church hits on things that are affecting people more directly. As I mentioned previously, I'm looking at a new church as well. Hoping for more of the same.

[JimL]

Great, then just provide us with a quote where he DOES claim to be a practicing Christian. And plenty of people go to church who aren't any kind of Christian, much less a practicing one. Also Buttigieg has mentioned he hasn't been going to church much. You might just want to read those 150 pages because we covered all this in them.

Well, actually, from what I see, if "practicing" entails more than just going to church, then very few of the self described christians are actually practicing christians anyway. So, can anyone tell me what CP meant in the first place by Buttigieg not being a "practicing christian."

[Cow Poke]

He does claim to be a practicing Christian.

Then you should be able to provide a quote from him making that claim.

He does so every time he refers to 'his faith' which is Episcopalian.

His "faith", according to his own words, is "more-or-less Anglican".

If you want to find out if that means something, then go to a Muslim country hostile to Christian faith and say the same thing over and over again and see how that plays (are you considered Christian and do you suffer the abuse such a claim entails in a muslim country).

Say what, "I'm more-or-less an Anglican, and I don't really believe prayer does anything"? Yeah, they'd riot in the streets.

He identifies the faith of his church as HIS faith. That is all he needs to say. And it is consistent with what you can expect with how most Episcopalians I know would naturally express their faith outside of a direct challenge by someone that doubted the reality of their faith. He views himself as a Christian because Episcopalian is a Christian denomination and he is part of that church. Just like a Catholic will view themselves as a Christian because the RCC is part of the Christian Church (the only one with legitimate direct ties to Peter in their view I might add). In fact, most people in those churches will not comprehend how you can even ask the question: I am Episcopalian or I am Catholic is synonymous with I am a Christian. So he probably can't even comprehend how people in the evangelical community could even wonder if he is really sees himself as a Christian,

The media has proclaimed him "their kind" of Christian because he attacked Trump and Pence. That's pretty much the extent of his "faith". His own brother-in-law indicates this whole "faith" thing is a ruse for political expediency. And, oh, yeah... he's gay! That's the icing on the cake.

though I'm sure he would understand Christians that don't understand how he could be in a gay marriage and be professing himself a Christian.

A) He doesn't profess to be a Christian - you just went through all kinds of nonsense rationalizing why he doesn't need to do that.
2) Do YOU believe somebody can be in a homosexual relationship and be a "practicing Christian"?

He doesn't need to recite the apostles creed before CNN for him to have a legitimate claim to being Christian.

What a load of crap.

But you could probably go to his church and hear him recite it if you really, really need that sort of direct proclamation to accept someone's self identification as Christian.

You're blowing smoke, Jim. You don't even know that he ATTENDS Church.

[oxmixmudd]

Then you should be able to provide a quote from him making that claim.



His "faith", according to his own words, is "more-or-less Anglican".



Say what, "I'm more-or-less an Anglican, and I don't really believe prayer does anything"? Yeah, they'd riot in the streets.



The media has proclaimed him "their kind" of Christian because he attacked Trump and Pence. That's pretty much the extent of his "faith". His own brother-in-law indicates this whole "faith" thing is a ruse for political expediency. And, oh, yeah... he's gay! That's the icing on the cake.



A) He doesn't profess to be a Christian - you just went through all kinds of nonsense rationalizing why he doesn't need to do that.
2) Do YOU believe somebody can be in a homosexual relationship and be a "practicing Christian"?



What a load of crap.



You're blowing smoke, Jim. You don't even know that he ATTENDS Church.

Oh good grief - He attends church here:

Source: wikipedia

A member of the Episcopal Church, Buttigieg is a congregant at the Cathedral of St. James in downtown South Bend.

© Copyright Original Source

https://www.stjamessouthbend.org/

He's mayor of the town. Don't you suppose if he wasn't really a member there someone would have said something about it?

And if you look at the picture of the congregation celebrating the Bishop's visit, I believe you will see Buttigieg standing to the left smiling, and I think that is his partner a little farther left.


Jim