Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

[Tassman]

Yes he did order their execution under the Mosaic Civil Code.

And Jesus personally reinforced this right? Oh wait, Jesus didn't mention homosexuality did he? He talked about fornication, adultery, lust, marriage, divorce, and other aspects of sexuality. But he never mentioned same-sex sexual relations. He seemed more focused on loving people.

[tabibito]

Strange thing that. Jesus addressed matters where there was error or deficiency in understanding by conventional attitudes ... but he never mentioned homosexuality.

[Tassman]

It's right there, Tass - you accidentally said something true, then you tried to wiggle out of it. You have the credibility of snail poop.

Yes, your typical anti-Christian rant. That has NOTHING to do with what Buttigieg is doing, because he's not trying to interpret scripture at all - he's just flat out ignoring it. Just like you're totally ignoring Mohler's critique of Buttigieg's "Christianity".

Critique of Buttigieg's "Christianity" is not the argument.

And, as your hero Mohler pointed out, that's pretty much asinine.

Of course, a Baptist theologian would say that but this is not the argument.

The argument is that Christians throughout history have interpreted scripture so as to conform to the social mores of the of the day. And reinterpret it as societal values change. E.g many Southern US Baptists justified slavery with quotes from scripture until the practice of slavery became socially intolerable. So, in 1995, they “unwaveringly denounced racism, in all its forms, as deplorable sin”.

Here's what's happening -- Buttigieg is a homosexual, so you will do or say absolutely anything to defend him, however irrational or nutty.

I’m neither defending nor condemning him, merely making the case that he’s just as entitled to his opinion as a Christian as you and Mohler are.

Social values are changing re homosexuality and, given biblical history, Christians will revise biblical interpretation to accommodate it…just as they did re the abolition of slavery, apartheid in South Africa, and the role of women etc.

[carpedm9587]

Strange thing that. Jesus addressed matters where there was error or deficiency in understanding by conventional attitudes ... but he never mentioned homosexuality.

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[seer]

And Jesus personally reinforced this right? Oh wait, Jesus didn't mention homosexuality did he? He talked about fornication, adultery, lust, marriage, divorce, and other aspects of sexuality. But he never mentioned same-sex sexual relations. He seemed more focused on loving people.

So what? He didn't say anything about rape either, and loving others? You mean the parts about sending people to hell?

[seer]

• Edited by a Moderator •

That was just out of line Carp, bad form old man...

[Cow Poke]

And Jesus personally reinforced this right?

Nor did he "You've heard it said that X, but I say Y" on it.

Oh wait, Jesus didn't mention homosexuality did he? He talked about fornication, adultery, lust, marriage, divorce, and other aspects of sexuality. But he never mentioned same-sex sexual relations. He seemed more focused on loving people.

The Greek word that He used that is translated "fornications" (plural) [porneia / πορνεύω (G4203)] could also included homosexuality and lesbianism.

[Cow Poke]

Critique of Buttigieg's "Christianity" is not the argument.

So, he can question Pence's Christianity, but his own is off the table? That's not how this works.

Of course, a Baptist theologian would say that but this is not the argument.

He was your GO TO -- and now, as is your custom, you throw him under the bus when you don't agree with him?

The argument is that Christians throughout history have interpreted scripture so as to conform to the social mores of the of the day. And reinterpret it as societal values change. E.g many Southern US Baptists justified slavery with quotes from scripture until the practice of slavery became socially intolerable. So, in 1995, they “unwaveringly denounced racism, in all its forms, as deplorable sin”.

Ah, so you've gone back to THAT steaming load of crap again! At LEAST you're not longer lying about it being "The SBC". You are a slippery one!

You say "many Southern US Baptists", (that's not how one would reference "the Southern Baptists") then you specifically refer to the official Resolution made by the Southern Baptists at our annual meeting.

I’m neither defending nor condemning him, merely making the case that he’s just as entitled to his opinion as a Christian as you and Mohler are.

Buttigieg hasn't offered any "interpretation" of the scriptures regarding homosexuality -- he merely IGNORES them as if they don't exist.

Social values are changing re homosexuality and, given biblical history, Christians will revise biblical interpretation to accommodate it…just as they did re the abolition of slavery, apartheid in South Africa, and the role of women etc.

This has nothing to do with "interpretation" - why cant you get that through your little slippery word-shifting little brain?

It's not about Buttigieg's "interpretation" of the Bible - its about his total DISREGARD for it. All your dishonest little diversions are beside the point.

[Cow Poke]

So what? He didn't say anything about rape either, and loving others? You mean the parts about sending people to hell?

He clearly spoke against "fornications", plural: [porneia / πορνεύω (G4203)]

1) illicit sexual intercourse

A) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
B) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
C) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols

A) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

[tabibito]

He clearly spoke against "fornications", plural: [porneia / πορνεύω (G4203)]

1) illicit sexual intercourse

A) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
B) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
C) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols

A) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

porneia is the action: noun, nom/dtv, fem, sgl
pornè is the person: noun, nom/dtv, fem, sgl

[Cow Poke]

porneia is the action: noun, nom/dtv, fem, sgl
pornè is the person: noun, nom/dtv, fem, sgl

You're welcome to (also) expound on that in my Biblical Languages thread!

[JimL]

So you all believe that god commanded homosexuals be stoned to death, right?

[Cow Poke]

Critique of Buttigieg's "Christianity" is not the argument.

You would love to believe that to be the case.

However, he actually began this attacking Pence's faith (while, oddly enough, claiming he would never question another person's faith).

When Buttigieg first "came out", Pence was asked to comment. His words - “I hold Mayor Buttigieg in the highest personal regard. I see him as a dedicated public servant and a patriot.” Beyond that, there is no evidence that Pence has ever said an unkind word about or done an unkind thing to Buttigieg.

How does Buttigieg reciprocate? “He’s nice. If he were here, you would think he’s a nice guy to your face. But he’s also fanatical.” And “That’s the thing I wish the Mike Pences of the world would understand. That if you got a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me — your quarrel, sir, is with my creator.”

So, Buttigieg can attack Trump's faith and Pence's faith, but his own is off the table?

It's no surprise at all that, in your anti-Christian bigotry, Tassman, that would be your position.

[carpedm9587]

You would love to believe that to be the case.

However, he actually began this attacking Pence's faith (while, oddly enough, claiming he would never question another person's faith).

When Buttigieg first "came out", Pence was asked to comment. His words - “I hold Mayor Buttigieg in the highest personal regard. I see him as a dedicated public servant and a patriot.” Beyond that, there is no evidence that Pence has ever said an unkind word about or done an unkind thing to Buttigieg.

How does Buttigieg reciprocate? “He’s nice. If he were here, you would think he’s a nice guy to your face. But he’s also fanatical.” And “That’s the thing I wish the Mike Pences of the world would understand. That if you got a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me — your quarrel, sir, is with my creator.”

So, Buttigieg can attack Trump's faith and Pence's faith, but his own is off the table?

It's no surprise at all that, in your anti-Christian bigotry, Tassman, that would be your position.

Pence has:

- suggested that gay couples signaled societal collapse (Buttigieg is married to a man)
- opposed a law prohibiting discrimination against members of the LGBTQ community in the workplace (Buttigieg is gay)
- opposed the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell (Buttigieg served in the military)

And that's just for starters. You can attack a person without calling them out by name. All you have to do is attack a class of which they are a member. I think Buttigieg's assessment of Mr. Pence is spot-on.

[Cow Poke]

Pence has:

- suggested that gay couples signaled societal collapse (Buttigieg is married to a man)
- opposed a law prohibiting discrimination against members of the LGBTQ community in the workplace (Buttigieg is gay)
- opposed the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell (Buttigieg served in the military)

And that's just for starters. You can attack a person without calling them out by name. All you have to do is attack a class of which they are a member. I think Buttigieg's assessment of Mr. Pence is spot-on.

Of course you do. Buttigieg can use his "faith" to declare that God created him as a homosexual and attack Pence, but Pence can not, because of his faith, express his sincerely held religious beliefs.