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Thread: Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

  1. #1521
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    This is not so. It was commonplace throughout the entire ancient world…including the Roman Province of Jerusalem.

    “Homosexuality in ancient Rome was a large part of society and of sexuality in general. Sex in the ancient world was considered a casual day-to-day practice with no emotional attachment, which is very different from the views of sex in modern day society”. “The ancient Romans also had a very different understanding of homosexuality than we do in modern society. There was no real concept of homosexuality or of heterosexuality”

    https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Roman_.../Homosexuality
    Nothing in the article you linked to backs up your claim that homosexuality was commonplace in the province of Jerusalem, so I'm not even sure why you bothered linking to it.

  2. Amen NorrinRadd, Adrift amen'd this post.
  3. #1522
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    Nothing in the article you linked to backs up your claim that homosexuality was commonplace in the province of Jerusalem, so I'm not even sure why you bothered linking to it.
    “Homosexuality in ancient Rome was a large part of society and of sexuality in general." Jerusalem had been a Province of Rome since it was conquered by Pompey in 63 BCE. The Roman Empire cast a vast shadow over the world of the New Testament, despite the freedom of worship granted to the Jews. Overall, what applied to the Roman Empire culturally applied to Jerusalem as well. After all, Jesus wasn't just preaching to the Jews, but to the whole world.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  4. #1523
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    “Homosexuality in ancient Rome was a large part of society and of sexuality in general." Jerusalem had been a Province of Rome since it was conquered by Pompey in 63 BCE. The Roman Empire cast a vast shadow over the world of the New Testament, despite the freedom of worship granted to the Jews. Overall, what applied to the Roman Empire culturally applied to Jerusalem as well.
    I'm sorry, but to go from "Homosexuality in ancient Rome was a large part of society and of sexuality in general." to "[Homosexual relationships were] commonplace throughout the entire ancient world…including the Roman Province of Jerusalem. " using the justification of "what applied to the Roman Empire culturally applied to Jerusalem as well" is one of the most disingenious distortions of reasoning I've seen in a while. Surviving Jewish literature (Philo, Josephus, Rabbinical writings) of the time overwhelmingly criticize same-sex relationships and while it might have been practiced by some people in Judaea, we have no reason to think it would have been socially accepted by the Jewish population in the province.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    After all, Jesus wasn't just preaching to the Jews, but to the whole world.
    And for you to actually have a case of Jesus' being tolerant of homosexual practices you would need an example of Jesus stating that homosexual practices were acceptable, silence on the issue isn't enough. In fact, Jesus' silence on the matter is nothing more than a tacit acknowledgement/acceptance about the prohibitions on homosexual relationships written down in Leviticus and the negative view of homosexual practices by his contempary Jewish authors and religious leadership.

  5. #1524
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    I'm sorry, but to go from "Homosexuality in ancient Rome was a large part of society and of sexuality in general." to "[Homosexual relationships were] commonplace throughout the entire ancient world…including the Roman Province of Jerusalem. " using the justification of "what applied to the Roman Empire culturally applied to Jerusalem as well" is one of the most disingenious distortions of reasoning I've seen in a while. Surviving Jewish literature (Philo, Josephus, Rabbinical writings) of the time overwhelmingly criticize same-sex relationships and while it might have been practiced by some people in Judaea, we have no reason to think it would have been socially accepted by the Jewish population in the province.



    And for you to actually have a case of Jesus' being tolerant of homosexual practices you would need an example of Jesus stating that homosexual practices were acceptable, silence on the issue isn't enough. In fact, Jesus' silence on the matter is nothing more than a tacit acknowledgement/acceptance about the prohibitions on homosexual relationships written down in Leviticus and the negative view of homosexual practices by his contempary Jewish authors and religious leadership.
    Not to mention - Jesus did not normally preach to outsiders. By his own account, his brief was to preach to Israel. Occasional encounters with Romans, Samaritans, Syro-Phoenicians are documentation of exceptional actions. Prior to the crucifixion, even his disciples were instructed to go to Israel, and not to the gentiles.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  6. Amen NorrinRadd, Chrawnus, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  7. #1525
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    Surviving Jewish literature (Philo, Josephus, Rabbinical writings) of the time overwhelmingly criticize same-sex relationships and while it might have been practiced by some people in Judaea, we have no reason to think it would have been socially accepted by the Jewish population in the province.
    And yet homosexuality obviously existed in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus (which you queried) for the very reason that Philo was an exact contemporary of Jesus with family in Jerusalem and Judea. Certainly, Philo shares the contemporary Jewish revulsion at what was not merely usual but socially approved male behavior in the Graeco-Roman world. And yet Jesus never mentions it.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  8. #1526
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    And yet homosexuality obviously existed in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus (which you queried) for the very reason that Philo was an exact contemporary of Jesus with family in Jerusalem and Judea. Certainly, Philo shares the contemporary Jewish revulsion at what was not merely usual but socially approved male behavior in the Graeco-Roman world. And yet Jesus never mentions it.
    The bolded has been part of my point all along. Philo was writing for a Roman/Hellenistic audience, so he would have had reason to mention and defend the Jewish prohibitions against homosexual relationships. For Jesus, who would have been primarily "preaching to the choir" on this issue, there would have been no need what so ever for Him to mention anything against it. The very fact that Jesus never mentions homosexual practices in a positive light when the prevailing opinion was against it in the areas where He was active is most reasonably seen as tacit support for the prohibition, especially in view of the fact that He had such a high regard for the Jewish Law, and never mentioned anything about taking exception to the prohibitions about homosexual relationships in that very same Law.

    If Jesus wanted to He would have had ample opportunity to say something to the effect of condoning same-sex relationships, but unfortunately for your unstated position that Jesus might have been fine with having sex with people of the same gender such affirmations are noticeably absent.
    Last edited by Chrawnus; 06-20-2019 at 04:30 AM.

  9. Amen Adrift, Cow Poke, NorrinRadd, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  10. #1527
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Yes exactly. Buttigieg can't be a REAL Christian no matter what his worship habits are, because he's a practicing homosexual unashamedly participating in his sin.


    Tassman finally got it right and admitted that Buttigieg isn't a "REAL Christian!"

    Thread over.

  11. #1528
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post


    Tassman finally got it right and admitted that Buttigieg isn't a "REAL Christian!"

    Thread over.
    No, actually Tass had it right all along, i.e. that Buttigieg isn't a real christian according to you, which really is all that you have been arguing.

  12. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  13. #1529
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    No, actually Tass had it right all along, i.e. that Buttigieg isn't a real christian
    If you say so.

  14. #1530
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    Which is strange since you'd think you'd run into a "the bible says" argument once in awhile on a Christian forum.
    Unless, of course, you just wanna make up your very own sissified version of Christ, which is what Tass is doing.
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