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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    He claims to be a christian, he claims to be a member of a christian church.
    We'll be approaching 2,000 posts before long, and there has been no evidence that he ever claimed to be a "practicing Christian" OR that he's a member of a Christian church.

    How bout you stop being a nit picker and accept the facts.
    Why don't you mind your own ignorant little business, or help your buddy defend his claim?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      Norrin Radd (post 1578) and more strongly, CowPoke (post 1579), has pointed to a couple of the implications.

      Churches are quite happy, in the main to accept as Christian, or at least as members of the church, any number of subsets of sinner. They will even accept such people in ordained positions; albeit a more restricted range applies.

      Homosexuality is volubly declared incompatible with Christianity ... not so much other sins. But ...

      it is not singled out as a particularly different sin in the Bible. A congregation which accepts as members, people who openly and even unashamedly engage in other sins has no grounds for excluding people who engage in homosexual relationships. Which is to say ... the line in the sand gets drawn in the wrong place. As things stand, hypocrisy on this issue is inescapable.
      I have commented in the past the the Church dropped the ball and lost the Moral High Ground as they became more accepting of certain sins (like sex before marriage, adultery etc). It became a "yeah it's wrong, but we'll ignore it because it makes people uncomfortable".

      The result was when the Church started reacting to other sins, then the World said "hey what's that plank sticking out your eye".

      The Church does need to get back to the idea from Paul that just because things are acceptable and even celebrated in the World, does not mean we can accept it in the Church. And that goes for homosexual acts, adultery, sex before marriage, drunkenness, lying etc.

      And yes, at the same time the Church needs to be gracious to the sinner who is struggling with things
      Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
      1 Corinthians 16:13

      "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
      -Ben Witherington III

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Raphael View Post
        I have commented in the past the the Church dropped the ball and lost the Moral High Ground as they became more accepting of certain sins (like sex before marriage, adultery etc). It became a "yeah it's wrong, but we'll ignore it because it makes people uncomfortable".

        The result was when the Church started reacting to other sins, then the World said "hey what's that plank sticking out your eye".

        The Church does need to get back to the idea from Paul that just because things are acceptable and even celebrated in the World, does not mean we can accept it in the Church. And that goes for homosexual acts, adultery, sex before marriage, drunkenness, lying etc.

        And yes, at the same time the Church needs to be gracious to the sinner who is struggling with things
        I could demur on "sex before marriage," but it would be a matter of nuance. As to the rest, agreed.
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Which in NO way backs up your nutty assertion that he claimed, himself, to be a "practicing Christian".
          Well it does. Perhaps you better define what you mean by “practicing Christian”, because it seems to me that you are merely arguing semantics for the sake of trying to score a cheap point.

          Buttigieg talks about his Christian faith and recognizes that Christ was the model of divinity that came into this world and lay down his life. And how “So much of the New Testament is about love. The idea that God is love. The idea that the greatest of these faith hope and love is love...”

          https://www.npr.org/2019/05/20/72513...iage-and-faith

          It may not be Christianity as you understand it to be but it seems from this link, and many other links previously posted, that Buttigieg is perfectly sincere about his Christian faith. This is all the argument is about as far as I'm concerned. What are you arguing about?
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            Well it does. Perhaps you better define what you mean by “practicing Christian”, because it seems to me that you are merely arguing semantics for the sake of trying to score a cheap point.
            we already did, several times. Do you have alzheimer's Tassy? Or do you think you can just pretend it never happened and people will believe you? Is it a tactic or are you mentally disabled?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              Well it does.
              Only in your twisted little head.

              You claimed that he, himself, claimed to be a "practicing Christian". It doesn't matter HOW that is defined - he appears to have never said it.

              Perhaps you better define what you mean by “practicing Christian”, because it seems to me that you are merely arguing semantics for the sake of trying to score a cheap point.
              Absolutely totally beside the point. All you're doing at this point is dodging the fact that you made a claim you cannot support, and you're not man enough to admit it.

              Do you not have ANY decency at ALL?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Meanwhile, all is not well in Mayor Pete's current job...

                Buttigieg criticized at emotional town hall after shooting

                SOUTH BEND, Ind. (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg faced criticism Sunday from angry residents of South Bend, Indiana, at an emotional town hall meeting a week after a white police officer fatally shot a black man in the city where he is mayor.

                Buttigieg (BOO’-tuh-juhj) said he would call for an outside investigation of the shooting of 54-year-old Eric Logan by Sgt. Ryan O’Neill.

                The 37-year-old mayor said he would send a letter to the federal Department of Justice’s civil rights division and notify the local prosecutor that he’d like an independent investigator appointed. He conceded that his administration had failed on two key initiatives.

                “The effort to recruit more minority officers to the police department and the effort to introduce body cameras have not succeeded and I accept responsibility for that,” Buttigieg said.

                Prosecutors investigating said that the shooting was not recorded by O’Neill’s body camera.

                The town hall grew contentious when some community members questioned whether the mayor had done enough to reform the police department in the city of 100,000 people, which is about a quarter black.

                “Get the people that are racist off the streets,” one woman in the audience said. “Reorganize your department. You can do that by Friday.”
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                  I have commented in the past the the Church dropped the ball and lost the Moral High Ground as they became more accepting of certain sins (like sex before marriage, adultery etc). It became a "yeah it's wrong, but we'll ignore it because it makes people uncomfortable".

                  The result was when the Church started reacting to other sins, then the World said "hey what's that plank sticking out your eye".

                  The Church does need to get back to the idea from Paul that just because things are acceptable and even celebrated in the World, does not mean we can accept it in the Church. And that goes for homosexual acts, adultery, sex before marriage, drunkenness, lying etc.

                  And yes, at the same time the Church needs to be gracious to the sinner who is struggling with things
                  I find this a little curious because I hear this sort of thing all of the time, and I guess it just hasn't been my experience. My experience (at least in the churches I've belonged to) has been that sex before marriage and adultery are MAJOR themes in church sermons . The churches I've attended rarely talk about homosexuality, mostly because the big sins among your average person coming into the church (especially for the first time) are typically sleeping around/sex out side of marriage type stuff. Maybe the difference is that the churches I attend tend to talk to the people in the pew (so to speak, I haven't been a church with actual "pews" in ages). The only thing I don't see more talk on is divorce. They'll have special marriage conferences, but divorce in general is kinda shrugged at more than it should be. I think that's because, even though Jesus speaks directly on it, there's still a bit of confusion in the church about when it's okay to have one, and then there's probably not enough discussion about whether or not you can remarry, and that sort of thing. There have been plenty of people struggling with homosexuality that have found their way into the churches I've attended, but they count for, what? 1-2% of the congregation? Spending lots of time talking about it just doesn't really make sense. I really only see homosexuality dealt with on a broader scale when it comes to other formats like blogs, magazine articles, radio shows, and online, and it's not because its considered a worse sin than adultery or sex before marriage, but because it's one of very few sins that are heavily celebrated. Outside of Ashley Madison, adultery still hasn't got to the point in our culture where people are actively celebrating it, and while sleeping around is celebrated, there's still a tiny bit of secular stigma left to having lots and lots of partners.
                  Last edited by Adrift; 06-24-2019, 08:18 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                    I find this a little curious because I hear this sort of thing all of the time, and I guess it just hasn't been my experience. My experience (at least in the churches I've belonged to) has been that sex before marriage and adultery are MAJOR themes in church sermons . The churches I've attended rarely talk about homosexuality, mostly because the big sins among your average person coming into the church (especially for the first) are typically sleeping around/sex out side of marriage type stuff. Maybe the difference is that the churches I attend tend to talk to the people in the pew (so to speak, I haven't been a church with actual "pews" in ages). The only thing I don't see more talk on is divorce. They'll have special marriage conferences, but divorce in general is kinda shrugged at more than it should be. I think that's because, even though Jesus speaks directly on it, there's still a bit of confusion in the church about when it's okay to have one, and then there's probably not enough discussion about whether or not you can remarry, and that sort of thing. There have been plenty of people struggling with homosexuality that have found their way into the churches I've attended, but they count for, what? 1-2% of the congregation? Spending lots of time talking about it just doesn't really make sense. I really only see homosexuality dealt with on a broader scale when it comes to other formats, like blogs, magazine articles, radio shows, and online, and it's not because its considered a worse sin than adultery or sex before marriage, but because it's because it's one of very few sins that are heavily celebrated. Outside of Ashley Madison, adultery still hasn't got to the point in our culture where people are actively celebrating it, and while sleeping around is celebrated, there's still a tiny bit of secular stigma left to having lots and lots of partners.
                    All of which is making it harder and harder to find men qualified to be deacons.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Meanwhile, all is not well in Mayor Pete's current job...

                      Buttigieg criticized at emotional town hall after shooting

                      SOUTH BEND, Ind. (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg faced criticism Sunday from angry residents of South Bend, Indiana, at an emotional town hall meeting a week after a white police officer fatally shot a black man in the city where he is mayor.

                      Buttigieg (BOO’-tuh-juhj) said he would call for an outside investigation of the shooting of 54-year-old Eric Logan by Sgt. Ryan O’Neill.

                      The 37-year-old mayor said he would send a letter to the federal Department of Justice’s civil rights division and notify the local prosecutor that he’d like an independent investigator appointed. He conceded that his administration had failed on two key initiatives.

                      “The effort to recruit more minority officers to the police department and the effort to introduce body cameras have not succeeded and I accept responsibility for that,” Buttigieg said.

                      Prosecutors investigating said that the shooting was not recorded by O’Neill’s body camera.

                      The town hall grew contentious when some community members questioned whether the mayor had done enough to reform the police department in the city of 100,000 people, which is about a quarter black.

                      “Get the people that are racist off the streets,” one woman in the audience said. “Reorganize your department. You can do that by Friday.”
                      This also fits in with that other thread where we were discussing police and how any shooting of a black person by a white police officer is automatically called racism.

                      In this case it seems that the police officer was following protocol and did nothing wrong. The suspect came at him with a knife and the officer shot him twice, just enough to stop him. It wasn't an overreaction, and he was not required to have his camera on at the time. But the fact that it wasn't on, automatically makes it look like a conspiracy to the ones who want to see racism everywhere.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        I find this a little curious because I hear this sort of thing all of the time, and I guess it just hasn't been my experience. My experience (at least in the churches I've belonged to) has been that sex before marriage and adultery are MAJOR themes in church sermons . The churches I've attended rarely talk about homosexuality, mostly because the big sins among your average person coming into the church (especially for the first) are typically sleeping around/sex out side of marriage type stuff. Maybe the difference is that the churches I attend tend to talk to the people in the pew (so to speak, I haven't been a church with actual "pews" in ages). The only thing I don't see more talk on is divorce. They'll have special marriage conferences, but divorce in general is kinda shrugged at more than it should be. I think that's because, even though Jesus speaks directly on it, there's still a bit of confusion in the church about when it's okay to have one, and then there's probably not enough discussion about whether or not you can remarry, and that sort of thing. There have been plenty of people struggling with homosexuality that have found their way into the churches I've attended, but they count for, what? 1-2% of the congregation? Spending lots of time talking about it just doesn't really make sense. I really only see homosexuality dealt with on a broader scale when it comes to other formats like blogs, magazine articles, radio shows, and online, and it's not because its considered a worse sin than adultery or sex before marriage, but because it's because it's one of very few sins that are heavily celebrated. Outside of Ashley Madison, adultery still hasn't got to the point in our culture where people are actively celebrating it, and while sleeping around is celebrated, there's still a tiny bit of secular stigma left to having lots and lots of partners.
                        I'd say this squares with my church experience, too.
                        I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          This also fits in with that other thread where we were discussing police and how any shooting of a black person by a white police officer is automatically called racism.

                          In this case it seems that the police officer was following protocol and did nothing wrong. The suspect came at him with a knife and the officer shot him twice, just enough to stop him. It wasn't an overreaction, and he was not required to have his camera on at the time. But the fact that it wasn't on, automatically makes it look like a conspiracy to the ones who want to see racism everywhere.
                          And what is Mayor Pete's solution?

                          In the wake of the shooting, Buttigieg called on his police chief to remind officers to have their body cameras on at all times when they are engaging with citizens.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            All of which is making it harder and harder to find men qualified to be deacons.
                            You're talking about because of divorce?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              You're talking about because of divorce?
                              Mainly, yes. But I actually have a guy who was IN ALL OTHER RESECTS a good candidate for deacon, but he's living with a woman who is not his wife. They come to church together quite regularly, they are a wonderful couple, they always stay to help clean up after meals, she attends all our ladies' bible studies....
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Mainly, yes. But I actually have a guy who was IN ALL OTHER RESECTS a good candidate for deacon, but he's living with a woman who is not his wife. They come to church together quite regularly, they are a wonderful couple, they always stay to help clean up after meals, she attends all our ladies' bible studies....
                                Ah, yeah. That's unfortunately not uncommon. It's become so much the norm in secular society that it's hard to break off when you start getting serious about making Jesus Lord. I lived with a couple of girlfriends in the past when I was still floating around in my faith, and wasn't taking it seriously. Had to knock that nonsense off.

                                I really haven't been to a church that has had deacons, at least, not in name. They're usually called something along the lines of "minister," "counselor," or referred to as "pastor," even though they're more like an assistant pastor to the head pastor. Not sure why there's such a reluctance to use certain labels in some denominations/non-denominations. I've been to churches with no deacons, but with bishops, for instance. And others with no bishops at all. I'm going to be checking out the local Calvary Chapel this weekend (didn't even know we had one till last week), and I know they eschew a heavily hierarchical system of church governance (especially a board of lay "elders" which I kinda get). Should be interesting.

                                Comment

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