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Thread: Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

  1. #1601
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    As previously noted considering that a significant percentage of Episcopalians consider themselves to be evangelical your continued insistence on treating them separately makes no sense.
    They treat themselves separately. Episcopalians usually attend the Episcopal church which is most compatible with their own belief system.

    http://www.crivoice.org/lowhighchurch.html
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  2. #1602
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Um, no. I've known more than one member of a church who were definitely not Christian and weren't even a theist and made it clear. They went solely to accompany their spouse
    True of some people in every denomination no doubt. But such people are not likely to speak of their religion in the same terms as Buttigieg: E.g.:

    "My understanding of my faith is that – through a Christian framework – part of what we are called to do is to lay down our own self-interests, after the model of divinity that comes into this world in the form of Christ and lays down his life. And in order to do that, you have to care about something or someone more than yourself. So much of the New Testament is about love. The idea that God is love. The idea that the greatest of these faith hope and love is love. ...

    https://www.npr.org/2019/05/20/72513...iage-and-faith
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  3. #1603
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Norrin Radd (post 1578) and more strongly, CowPoke (post 1579), has pointed to a couple of the implications.

    Churches are quite happy, in the main to accept as Christian, or at least as members of the church, any number of subsets of sinner. They will even accept such people in ordained positions; albeit a more restricted range applies.

    Homosexuality is volubly declared incompatible with Christianity ... not so much other sins. But ...

    it is not singled out as a particularly different sin in the Bible. A congregation which accepts as members, people who openly and even unashamedly engage in other sins has no grounds for excluding people who engage in homosexual relationships. Which is to say ... the line in the sand gets drawn in the wrong place. As things stand, hypocrisy on this issue is inescapable.
    it is lumped together with adultery and other sexual sins. I don't see it as any different.

    1 Corinthians 6:9
    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

    and with liars

    1 Timothy 1:10
    the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

  4. #1604
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    True of some people in every denomination no doubt. But such people are not likely to speak of their religion in the same terms as Buttigieg: E.g.:

    "My understanding of my faith is that – through a Christian framework – part of what we are called to do is to lay down our own self-interests, after the model of divinity that comes into this world in the form of Christ and lays down his life. And in order to do that, you have to care about something or someone more than yourself. So much of the New Testament is about love. The idea that God is love. The idea that the greatest of these faith hope and love is love. ...

    https://www.npr.org/2019/05/20/72513...iage-and-faith
    Which in NO way backs up your nutty assertion that he claimed, himself, to be a "practicing Christian". How bout just abandoning that claim, as you already keep dodging it?
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

  5. #1605
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Which in NO way backs up your nutty assertion that he claimed, himself, to be a "practicing Christian". How bout just abandoning that claim, as you already keep dodging it?
    He claims to be a christian, he claims to be a member of a christian church. How bout you stop being a nit picker and accept the facts.

  6. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  7. #1606
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    He claims to be a christian, he claims to be a member of a christian church.
    We'll be approaching 2,000 posts before long, and there has been no evidence that he ever claimed to be a "practicing Christian" OR that he's a member of a Christian church.

    How bout you stop being a nit picker and accept the facts.
    Why don't you mind your own ignorant little business, or help your buddy defend his claim?
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

  8. #1607
    Child of the One True King Raphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Norrin Radd (post 1578) and more strongly, CowPoke (post 1579), has pointed to a couple of the implications.

    Churches are quite happy, in the main to accept as Christian, or at least as members of the church, any number of subsets of sinner. They will even accept such people in ordained positions; albeit a more restricted range applies.

    Homosexuality is volubly declared incompatible with Christianity ... not so much other sins. But ...

    it is not singled out as a particularly different sin in the Bible. A congregation which accepts as members, people who openly and even unashamedly engage in other sins has no grounds for excluding people who engage in homosexual relationships. Which is to say ... the line in the sand gets drawn in the wrong place. As things stand, hypocrisy on this issue is inescapable.
    I have commented in the past the the Church dropped the ball and lost the Moral High Ground as they became more accepting of certain sins (like sex before marriage, adultery etc). It became a "yeah it's wrong, but we'll ignore it because it makes people uncomfortable".

    The result was when the Church started reacting to other sins, then the World said "hey what's that plank sticking out your eye".

    The Church does need to get back to the idea from Paul that just because things are acceptable and even celebrated in the World, does not mean we can accept it in the Church. And that goes for homosexual acts, adultery, sex before marriage, drunkenness, lying etc.

    And yes, at the same time the Church needs to be gracious to the sinner who is struggling with things
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  9. #1608
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael View Post
    I have commented in the past the the Church dropped the ball and lost the Moral High Ground as they became more accepting of certain sins (like sex before marriage, adultery etc). It became a "yeah it's wrong, but we'll ignore it because it makes people uncomfortable".

    The result was when the Church started reacting to other sins, then the World said "hey what's that plank sticking out your eye".

    The Church does need to get back to the idea from Paul that just because things are acceptable and even celebrated in the World, does not mean we can accept it in the Church. And that goes for homosexual acts, adultery, sex before marriage, drunkenness, lying etc.

    And yes, at the same time the Church needs to be gracious to the sinner who is struggling with things
    I could demur on "sex before marriage," but it would be a matter of nuance. As to the rest, agreed.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  10. Amen Raphael amen'd this post.
  11. #1609
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Which in NO way backs up your nutty assertion that he claimed, himself, to be a "practicing Christian".
    Well it does. Perhaps you better define what you mean by “practicing Christian”, because it seems to me that you are merely arguing semantics for the sake of trying to score a cheap point.

    Buttigieg talks about his Christian faith and recognizes that Christ was the model of divinity that came into this world and lay down his life. And how “So much of the New Testament is about love. The idea that God is love. The idea that the greatest of these faith hope and love is love...”

    https://www.npr.org/2019/05/20/72513...iage-and-faith

    It may not be Christianity as you understand it to be but it seems from this link, and many other links previously posted, that Buttigieg is perfectly sincere about his Christian faith. This is all the argument is about as far as I'm concerned. What are you arguing about?
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  12. #1610
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Well it does. Perhaps you better define what you mean by “practicing Christian”, because it seems to me that you are merely arguing semantics for the sake of trying to score a cheap point.
    we already did, several times. Do you have alzheimer's Tassy? Or do you think you can just pretend it never happened and people will believe you? Is it a tactic or are you mentally disabled?

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