Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

[oxmixmudd]

2) There's no evidence that Buttigieg is a member of that Church.

Just where do you get off making idiotic statements like that? Why do you suppose he's in that photo? What about the fact he's listed as a member on his wikipedia entry? Do you go around demanding a letter on a church's letterhead before You'll accept any other person's claim they attend a church? Would that even be enough in this case?

And why are you so hung up on this fantasy that this person has completely made up his affiliation with this church? Isn't this thread 'only about whether he publicly can be quoted saying he's a practicing christian' so you can prove Tassman wrong?

It seems to be about a good deal more than that CP.

You really want his claims at Christian faith to be an open deception it seems and are quite intent on placing very unrealistic expectations on the amount of evidence required to support the idea.

Jim

ETA: and here is about as solid an evidence as you are likely to get he attends that church.

https://ednin.org/ednin-blog/2019/4/...sten-buttigieg

A call to prayer for him and his husband by the diocese over that church listing him as an active member of that church.


Jim

[Adrift]

I got no beef in this discussion, I just think it's kinda boring, and a hill not really worth dying on (for either side).

According to this link, his Bishop claims he's an active member of his church.

https://ednin.org/ednin-blog/2019/4/...sten-buttigieg

(Oh, looks like oxmix already linked it)

Also in this video here,
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/wa...-1461532739696

He says "Yes" when asked if he's made Jesus Lord. He also states that Christianity is about more than that, it's about us being imitators of Christ, and he remarks on how when God comes among us, we see service, humbling, feet washing, and he agrees with the concept of the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

I'm not sure how sincere he is, but if it'll stop the back and forth here, maybe it's worth something.

[Tassman]

I got no beef in this discussion, I just think it's kinda boring, and a hill not really worth dying on (for either side).

According to this link, his Bishop claims he's an active member of his church.

https://ednin.org/ednin-blog/2019/4/...sten-buttigieg

(Oh, looks like oxmix already linked it)

Also in this video here,
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/wa...-1461532739696

He says "Yes" when asked if he's made Jesus Lord. He also states that Christianity is about more than that, it's about us being imitators of Christ, and he remarks on how when God comes among us, we see service, humbling, feet washing, and he agrees with the concept of the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

I'm not sure how sincere he is, but if it'll stop the back and forth here, maybe it's worth something.

Thank you Adrift, one can only hope.

[Leonhard]

Like Adrift I consider this discussion dull, but I'd put my money Buttigieg over Trump if I had to bet on who would go to the good place.

[NorrinRadd]

The only reason I'm even following this thread any more is just to see all the weird and idiosyncratic ways people will come up with to spell episcopal/episcopalian.

We could merge it with the UFO thread and talk about the proctoscope aliens.

[Sparko]

I can clearly give my own testimony that, not only am I a "practicing Christian", I can attest that I almost NEVER miss Church.

Well you ARE the preacher. I guess JimL forgot about that little detail.

[oxmixmudd]

Like Adrift I consider this discussion dull, but I'd put my money Buttigieg over Trump if I had to bet on who would go to the good place.

Me too, though the book is not written on either of them yet. Nothing says Trump cant repent, find God, change his ways sometime between now and when he dies. Buttigieg confesses Christ, though it is interesting how the strongest advocates for 'by grace alone' are the most vehement to deny any possibility he's actually a Christian because he acts on his gay attraction, although within a monogamous setting.



Jim

[Adrift]

Me too, though the book is not written on either of them yet. Nothing says Trump cant repent, find God, change his ways sometime between now and when he dies. Buttigieg confesses Christ, though it is interesting how the strongest advocates for 'by grace alone' are the most vehement to deny any possibility he's actually a Christian because he acts on his gay attraction, although within a monogamous setting.



Jim

I don't think acting on a gay attraction if it's within a monogamous setting gives it a pass. The traditional and best exegetical view of scripture is that same-sex sex is sinful. Full stop. Buttigieg can confess Christ till the cows come home, but if he's not repentant of the sin he's committing, and, in fact, flaunts his sin, then I think it's fair for fellow Christians to question the sincerity of his confession.

[tabibito]

I won't question his sincerity ... the validity of his confession is somewhat in doubt, though.

[KingsGambit]

I don't think acting on a gay attraction if it's within a monogamous setting gives it a pass. The traditional and best exegetical view of scripture is that same-sex sex is sinful. Full stop. Buttigieg can confess Christ till the cows come home, but if he's not repentant of the sin he's committing, and, in fact, flaunts his sin, then I think it's fair for fellow Christians to question the sincerity of his confession.

Apologies for the derail, but I wanted to ask what exactly your position at this point in time regarding the locus of sin in this case. I know we went back and forth awhile back on whether the attraction itself is sinful, and I don't remember in which thread, but do you maintain at this point in time that a celibate Christian who is same sex attracted is in a perpetual state of sin even if they never once act on it?

[Leonhard]

I don't think acting on a gay attraction if it's within a monogamous setting gives it a pass.

We can all agree on that.

[Leonhard]

Apologies for the derail, but I wanted to ask what exactly your position at this point in time regarding the locus of sin in this case. I know we went back and forth awhile back on whether the attraction itself is sinful, and I don't remember in which thread, but do you maintain at this point in time that a celibate Christian who is same sex attracted is in a perpetual state of sin even if they never once act on it?

I don't know if Adrift is a baptist or not, but they believe that anything we do - even our good deeds - are all completely tainted by sin.

In my opinion though involuntary actions cannot be sinful.

[Adrift]

Apologies for the derail, but I wanted to ask what exactly your position at this point in time regarding the locus of sin in this case. I know we went back and forth awhile back on whether the attraction itself is sinful, and I don't remember in which thread, but do you maintain at this point in time that a celibate Christian who is same sex attracted is in a perpetual state of sin even if they never once act on it?

I think if you entertain the thought of sexual sin then you're drifting into sinful behavior in exactly the same sense that the heteronormative person can drift into sinful behavior if they entertain the thought of sex with their neighbor's wife. Was it Billy Graham who said something to the effect of "it's not the first glance that gets you, it's the second one." I don't know where the exact crossing point is, but I definitely think wondering about that crossing point misses the point, which is that we should aim for putting on the mind of Christ. We shouldn't be as concerned about what we can get away with as we ought to constantly yearn to reflect Christ's thinking and behavior.

Ultimately I believe that it's God's desire for his children to be healed and whole, and I don't think that Christians who struggle with homosexual thoughts/desires should stop desiring wholeness, and completeness, anymore than the Christian who struggles with anger, or heterosexual lust.

[Mountain Man]

Me too, though the book is not written on either of them yet. Nothing says Trump cant repent, find God, change his ways sometime between now and when he dies. Buttigieg confesses Christ, though it is interesting how the strongest advocates for 'by grace alone' are the most vehement to deny any possibility he's actually a Christian because he acts on his gay attraction, although within a monogamous setting.

Who has vehemently denied any possibility that Buttigeig is actually a Christian? He very well may be, but based on the way he ignores scripture and openly flaunts his sinful lifestyle, if he is a Christian then he is likely like the ones Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 3 who will enter heaven but only as one who has escaped through the flames.

[Adrift]

I don't know if Adrift is a baptist or not, but they believe that anything we do - even our good deeds - are all completely tainted by sin.

In my opinion though involuntary actions cannot be sinful.

I'm not a Baptist. CP is though, and I'm sure he can chime in. I don't recall him ever putting it that way though. I'm finding that denominational labels are becoming more and more meaningless among many Protestants though, and the views of one group within the denomination do not necessarily reflect the views of others in the denomination. And often the views of those in one denomination are pretty much the same as those in another.

I wonder if the internet has had that effect on Christianity. More and more it seems that people are leaving their denominational divides, and embracing their commonalities.