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Thread: Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

  1. #1321
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    The prayer from this past Thursday at our Nation's Capitol ...

    06/13/2019
    Reverend Patrick J. Conroy, S.J.

    God our Father, we give You thanks for giving us another day.

    Bless the Members of this people's House as they gather at the end of another week in the Capitol. Endow each with the graces needed to attend to the issues of the day with wisdom, that the results of their efforts might benefit the citizens of our Nation and the world.

    We also ask Your blessing leading into this weekend upon fathers throughout our country. May they be their best selves and may their children appreciate fully the blessing they have been to them.

    May all that is done this day be for Your greater honor and glory. Amen.


    He asked God to Bless FATHERS!!!!! The HORRORS!!!!!
    He invoked a god - and in a government setting - thereby endorsing a particular religion or set of religions. Not all believe in a male god. Not all believe in any form of god.

    The sentiment was positive. The implementation was inappropriate, IMO.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  2. #1322
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That's a rather biased interpretation of the actual wording, and I'm not surprised you kinda sorta failed to include it (the actual wording), along with the 'prohibition' phrase.

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”


    So, you somehow managed to morph "respecting an establishment of religion" into "explicitly forbids the government from adopting, creating, or endorsing a religion", and you totally left out the part about "prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

    Carpe, seriously --- that's Tassman level work, and I'm disappointed in you.
    Your disappointment not withstanding, my point stands. For the government to adopt or create a religion would require a legislative act - which is what the wording explicitly prohibits. Endorsing is a bit different - it could be done by a formal legislative act - but I maintain that when the body that makes the laws engages in this type of thing, or the courts that enforce the laws do so, then we have a government body involved with law-making endorsing a religion. This is why it has been ruled repeatedly that putting the "Ten Commandments" up in a court of law is unconstitutional, unless it is in the context of a display of a variety of legal codes over the ages. It is because when these bodies endorse a particular religion, it raises the specter of how equitably anyone who does NOT subscribe to that religion will be dealt with in that context - either in the making or enforcing of laws.

    I believe our nation should be one nation, for all. Not one nation for Christians and we'll tolerate the rest as long as they don't bother us.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  3. #1323
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Your disappointment not withstanding, my point stands.
    Not just my disappointment - but the fact that you butchered the first amendment to make your point, which is actually just your opinion.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  4. #1324
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Not just my disappointment - but the fact that you butchered the first amendment to make your point, which is actually just your opinion.
    I responded to that in my post. I'll let that post stand.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  5. #1325
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I thought you might be.



    Yeah - and isn't it interesting to note that as you go from the Declaration of Independence, to the Articles of Confederation, to the Constitution itself (which were created in that order), the references to god go from a few, to one, to none. Somehow, the Founding Fathers saw fit, for the charter document that governs how this country functions and against which all laws are assessed, to omit any reference to a supreme being. Then tacked on an amendment that explicitly forbids the government from adopting, creating, or endorsing a religion for good measure.

    Interesting, that.
    As to that. As any check of dictionaries of the time will confirm, "religion" meant Christian denomination.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  6. #1326
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I responded to that in my post.
    In a Carpeien sort of way.

    I'll let that post stand.
    You have no choice - the time limit for editing has passed.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  7. #1327
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    OBP - it does not take "mind reading" to note when someone posts "Originally posted by X" and then places in that box something X didn't say. Since you had to do that intentionally (unless you are a bot?), then you posted a lie. I called it out. Do with that what you wish. You can simply continue the "Carpe takes himself too seriously" (or other) theme, or you can acknowledge it and stop doing it.

    Up to you.


    (I'm sure that will probably earn me another binkie from Moss... )
    I stand by my initial assessment that I accurately captured the gist of your post - and clearly indicated that I was doing so - when I did that. Would you like a tissue?
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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  8. #1328
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    In a Carpeien sort of way.
    I tried posting in a Sparkoian sort of way, and I broke out in a rash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    You have no choice - the time limit for editing has passed.
    Of course - that referred to no adding another post to clarify. Part of my "brevity" campaign...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  9. #1329
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I stand by my initial assessment that I accurately captured the gist of your post - and clearly indicated that I was doing so - when I did that. Would you like a tissue?
    I expected nothing less (more?). So much for "moral high ground."

    Thanks for the offer, but my allergy meds are doing their job and my nose isn't running.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 06-15-2019 at 11:08 AM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  10. #1330
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Sounds like what a semi-agnostic theist could say. Where does he ever proclaim that he is a Christian? Generally those of us who are Christian are quite open about it and take nearly any opportunity to proclaim our faith. IOW, you don't have to parse language and words from dozens of different statements to cobble up something that maybe, could be, possibly, is something sorta kinda like a statement of faith.
    The "Buttigieg is a devout Christian" or "devout Episcopalian" has pretty much died down in the media. Maybe they realize it wasn't such a wonderful thing after all, and eventually he'd have to defend that claim.

    But I get a kick out of the outlets that claimed not only that he was "a Christian" - but a DEVOUT [whatever - Christian/Episcopalian].

    Yes, those of us who are "devout" [whatever] Christians (or anything close to it) don't need a third party making that claim for us.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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