Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

[Adrift]

It's not really representative of the denomination as a whole, although statements like those are driving it that way as conservative elements give up in disgust and go elsewhere.

It's very likely why non-denominational and broadly evangelical denominations are growing or are maintaining numbers. They tend towards a more conservative Christian bent and are attracting the Mainliners. I'm assuming that it might also account for some growth in the Orthodox traditions as that's often seen as a relatively stable tradition without some of the Roman Catholic hang-ups.

[Cow Poke]

It's very likely why non-denominational and broadly evangelical denominations are growing or are maintaining numbers. They tend towards a more conservative Christian bent and are attracting the Mainliners. I'm assuming that it might also account for some growth in the Orthodox traditions as that's often seen as a relatively stable tradition without some of the Roman Catholic hang-ups.

Our local Methodist church is undergoing some internal challenges, as the new decree from on high appears to be driving a wedge between the rank and file and their leadership. I've had 3 families from the Methodist Church either talk to me, or ask to talk to me, about moving their families to my Church, and my local Bible Church Pastor friend is seeing the same thing.

[tabibito]

In one of the articles, it stated that there were 6 major bishops wanting to pull out, along with their associated churches, and were appealing to the Church of England (?) for permission to leave?

Yes - they are (or have been) part of the Anglican Communion, which means they are subject to the Archbishop of Canterbury - though technically to the monarch, as head of the Anglican church - though in reality to the majority party in government - since the monarch ceded the right to appoint the archbishop of Canterbury to that group - with the actual appointment being the province of the Prime Minister. It's all very Constantinian.

[Sparko]

Yes, that's what we do seer, we use reason. The golden rule makes perfect sense for a civil human society. Everyone should be treated the same and we should treat others as we would that they treat us. The details aren't set in stone as you would have it, even though your biblical devine morals change from the OT to the NT.

hey Jim, why don't you send me 50% of your money? Wouldn't YOU like to receive 50% of other people's money? Say like, Elon Musk? so, according to the golden rule, you need to send me half of your money (or more!) - just send it paypal to sparko@theologyweb.com

[Adrift]

Our local Methodist church is undergoing some internal challenges, as the new decree from on high appears to be driving a wedge between the rank and file and their leadership. I've had 3 families from the Methodist Church either talk to me, or ask to talk to me, about moving their families to my Church, and my local Bible Church Pastor friend is seeing the same thing.

Yeah, a close high school friend of mine is a Methodist pastor to a small country church, and he's dealing with a lot of the nuttiness going on in that denomination as well. He's confided in me that he doesn't identify as "Methodist", only as a Christian, and if the Methodist church decides to move from orthodox Christianity, he'll cross that bridge when he comes to it. The Methodist church recently voted not to allow homosexual pastors and marriages, so that was a win in his book. (personally I would have bailed long before it came to that)

[Cow Poke]

Yes - they are (or have been) part of the Anglican Communion, which means they are subject to the Archbishop of Canterbury - though technically to the monarch, as head of the Anglican church - though in reality to the majority party in government - since the monarch ceded the right to appoint the archbishop of Canterbury to that group - with the actual appointment being the province of the Prime Minister. It's all very Constantinian.

That makes me so happy to be part of an autonomous body that isn't beholden to a governing board or entity in another country.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, a close high school friend of mine is a Methodist pastor to a small country church, and he's dealing with a lot of the nuttiness going on in that denomination as well. He's confided in me that he doesn't identify as "Methodist", only as a Christian, and if the Methodist church decides to move from orthodox Christianity, he'll cross that bridge when he comes to it. The Methodist church recently voted not to allow homosexual pastors and marriages, so that was a win in his book.

What's amazing is how powerfully influential the Methodists were in all three Great Awakenings in our nation, and the "revivals in the camps" in both the American Revolution, the Civil War, etc....

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, a close high school friend of mine is a Methodist pastor to a small country church, and he's dealing with a lot of the nuttiness going on in that denomination as well. He's confided in me that he doesn't identify as "Methodist", only as a Christian, and if the Methodist church decides to move from orthodox Christianity, he'll cross that bridge when he comes to it. The Methodist church recently voted not to allow homosexual pastors and marriages, so that was a win in his book. (personally I would have bailed long before it came to that)

Interestingly, the question that usually comes up when Methodists want to come to our Church is Baptism. Baptists, of course, insist on "believer's baptism", and many of the Methodists were baptized as infants. About 6 months ago, I had a family of 6 meet with me, and when I explained about baptism they were very open to it. I assured them they could be 'part of the fellowship' without being members, but if they wanted to be members, the "door to the baptist church" is believer's baptism.

They agreed, we had our "this is what baptism is all about" class with them, and the whole family was baptized into our church. They have been a real blessing, wanting to help out with anything anywhere anytime!

[Sparko]

CP just established that they refused to affirm just that. Are you a moron?

Was that a trick question to JimL?

[Adrift]

What's amazing is how powerfully influential the Methodists were in all three Great Awakenings in our nation, and the "revivals in the camps" in both the American Revolution, the Civil War, etc....

Yeah, but honestly, I think the move away from denominations, and more towards a united evangelical concept is a net positive for the church. I currently attend a church affiliated with the Church of the Nazarene denomination, but I don't consider myself a "Nazarene." I'm a Christian who just happens to be going to this church because they teach the Gospel, have a heart for winning people to Christ, have decent worship music, and actually know and sprinkle into sermons Biblical scholars like NT Wright, Daniel Block, Craig Evans, etc.. It's not my perfect church (a perfect one for me would probably be openly charismatic, lean a bit more heavily on the meaty intellectual stuff, and maybe also lean slightly Messianic and/or early church-based (and if I were really picky, I'd prefer a more ethnically diverse congregation, and black gospel worship music )). But it's kind of neat to be able to go to any number of churches in my town or other cities and feel like a member, whether they be Baptist, Nazarene, Foursquare, Calvary Temple, vaguely non-denominational, etc..

[Adrift]

Interestingly, the question that usually comes up when Methodists want to come to our Church is Baptism. Baptists, of course, insist on "believer's baptism", and many of the Methodists were baptized as infants. About 6 months ago, I had a family of 6 meet with me, and when I explained about baptism they were very open to it. I assured them they could be 'part of the fellowship' without being members, but if they wanted to be members, the "door to the baptist church" is believer's baptism.

They agreed, we had our "this is what baptism is all about" class with them, and the whole family was baptized into our church. They have been a real blessing, wanting to help out with anything anywhere anytime!

Interesting. I may be going over to my buddy's house tonight for some food off the grill and some cold beers. I'm pretty sure he does adult "believer's baptisms" as well, rather than baby baptisms. I'll have to ask him about that.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, but honestly, I think the move away from denominations, and more towards a united evangelical concept is a net positive for the church. I currently attend a church affiliated with the Church of the Nazarene denomination, but I don't consider myself a "Nazarene." I'm a Christian who just happens to be going to this church because they teach the Gospel, have a heart for winning people to Christ, have decent worship music, and actually know and sprinkle into sermons Biblical scholars like NT Wright, Daniel Block, Craig Evans, etc.. It's not my perfect church (a perfect one for me would probably be openly charismatic, lean a bit more heavily on the meaty intellectual stuff, and maybe also lean slightly Messianic and/or early church-based (and if I were really picky, I'd prefer a more ethnically diverse congregation, and black gospel worship music )). But it's kind of neat to be able to go to any number of churches in my town or other cities and feel like a member, whether they be Baptist, Nazarene, Foursquare, Calvary Temple, vaguely non-denominational, etc..

Long ago I was given the sage advice - "if you're looking for the perfect church, and you find it, don't join it, cause you'll ruin it".

But, yeah, we had built an entire college ministry on the concept "you don't have to be Baptist to be here", and had a Sunday School class and Preaching Service of 125 College Kids. (I was the college minister) When we got a new pastor, his very first sermon to the college preaching service was all about "I have a little B on every bone in my body - I am a Baptist through and through -- if you're not a Baptist, you need to......"

I was stunned. I kept thinking he was being facetious or trying to make some point, and would come around to "you are accepted!" - but he didn't.

The next Sunday, we had 12-13 college kids show up, look around, and leave. He managed to kill 4 years of building a college ministry with ONE incredibly divisive sermon.

[Cow Poke]

Interesting. I may be going over to my buddy's house tonight for some food off the grill and some cold beers. I'm pretty sure he does adult "believer's baptisms" as well, rather than baby baptisms. I'll have to ask him about that.

From what I can tell, Methodists can do either*. I've run into both.



*I accidentally typed "wither" instead of "either" (Our local once-great Methodist Church is, indeed, withering)

[Cow Poke]

Interesting. I may be going over to my buddy's house tonight for some food off the grill and some cold beers.....

Wait! It's FRIDAY - so no MEAT, right?

[One Bad Pig]

It's very likely why non-denominational and broadly evangelical denominations are growing or are maintaining numbers. They tend towards a more conservative Christian bent and are attracting the Mainliners. I'm assuming that it might also account for some growth in the Orthodox traditions as that's often seen as a relatively stable tradition without some of the Roman Catholic hang-ups.

Yes, there's been an attraction to Orthodoxy in Anglican/Episcopalian circles for a couple centuries now. Occasionally entire parishes will vote to become Orthodox. A couple Episcopalian priests are semi-regular attendees at my parish for vespers.