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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

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  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal" - 1 Corinthians 13:1

    It's the "love" that's conspicuously lacking among you Evangelicals as opposed to Buttigieg's desire to preach an inclusive, socially active gospel.

    https://religionnews.com/2019/04/18/...spel-movement/
    The same person who wrote the "ode" to love that you're citing from also said that those that practice homosexuality will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    In fact, it's in the very same letter (6:8-10).

    Bottom line, the love Paul is talking about is not compatible with the kind of "inclusive, socially active gospel" that Buttigieg (and you) seem to be drawn towards.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
      The same person who wrote the "ode" to love that you're citing from also said that those that practice homosexuality will not inherit the kingdom of God.

      In fact, it's in the very same letter (6:8-10).

      Bottom line, the love Paul is talking about is not compatible with the kind of "inclusive, socially active gospel" that Buttigieg (and you) seem to be drawn towards.
      There are those who do not view these passages as condemnatory of loving homosexual relations. Obviously, the Episcopal Church doesn’t. It performs gay marriages and has consecrated at least one gay bishop to my knowledge. The fact is that homosexuality was commonplace in Jesus’ time and yet he never saw fit to mention it let alone condemn it.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
        I don't really have a horse in this particular race, so I'm not sure why I'm still following the discussion. On the point of Trump, I am skeptical but slightly hopeful about his supposed conversion and spirituality, but I'll note that AFAIK, he has not attacked *others* in regard to their religious beliefs.
        How on earth can you even begin to say that? Do you think Christian-affiliated religions are the only religion in the world? Trump has been attacking the Islamic faith, leveraging it for political gain since he started his campaign - and even before.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          1. I thought you said I had the last word?
          2. Argument by weblink is against the rules. I have no idea what your point is since all you did was link to an article that has nothing to do with what I said, so I cannot respond to it.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            One of the main purposes of being Christians is to tell others and "spread the good news" -- the "great commission" is to "go and tell" -- It's just downright nutty to think that Jesus intended His followers to be secret agents.
            Like I said - there is the great commission, and there is the injunction against flaunting your faith/deeds in front of others for show. Knowing which one any given person is doing is not possible without reading minds. I find the tendency of many (most?) people is to think people they like and/or agree with are doing the former, and people they do not like and/or disagree with are doing the latter. At least, that is the behavior I observe by a great number of people on a regular basis.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              Like I said - there is the great commission, and there is the injunction against flaunting your faith/deeds in front of others for show. Knowing which one any given person is doing is not possible without reading minds. I find the tendency of many (most?) people is to think people they like and/or agree with are doing the former, and people they do not like and/or disagree with are doing the latter. At least, that is the behavior I observe by a great number of people on a regular basis.
              And you think Pence is just showing off? That is what your article was about: showing off and doing things to get recognition and glory. Not merely sharing your faith and being a visible Christian. I have not seen Pence do any showing off, but he is vocal about being a Christian and standing up for Christian values EVEN WHEN HE IS MOCKED FOR IT BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                And you think Pence is just showing off?
                No - I don't know what Pence is doing. So I give him the benefit of the doubt that he is speaking honestly out of his faith system.

                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                That is what your article was about: showing off and doing things to get recognition and glory. Not merely sharing your faith and being a visible Christian. I have not seen Pence do any showing off, but he is vocal about being a Christian and standing up for Christian values...
                The article/biblical passage and the context in which I offered them was concerning Buttigieg, not Pence. The accusation was being made that Buttigieg "shows no signs of being a practicing Christian." The alternative possible explanation I was suggesting was that he is (possibly) adhering to this particular passage.

                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                EVEN WHEN HE IS MOCKED FOR IT BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
                I am not aware of ever "mocking" Mr. Pence. I am aware of disagreeing with his positions, and finding some of them immoral or simply injudicious. If you know of a place where I have actually mocked him, please point it out. Disagreeing is not "mocking."
                Last edited by carpedm9587; 06-19-2019, 08:21 AM.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                  I don't really have a horse in this particular race, so I'm not sure why I'm still following the discussion. On the point of Trump, I am skeptical but slightly hopeful about his supposed conversion and spirituality, but I'll note that AFAIK, he has not attacked *others* in regard to their religious beliefs.
                  This describes my view of Trump and his claimed Christianity too.
                  I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    No - I don't know what Pence is doing. So I give him the benefit of the doubt that he is speaking honestly out of his faith system.


                    The article/biblical passage and the context in which I offered them was concerning Buttigieg, not Pence. The accusation was being made that Buttigieg "shows no signs of being a practicing Christian." The alternative possible explanation I was suggesting was that he is (possibly) adhering to this particular passage.
                    Except you posted that article in response to my talking about Pence showing that he is a Christian openly:
                    Originally posted by Carp
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    I can find multiple results and videos of Pence claiming to be a Christian openly and examples of him "practicing" Christianity.
                    Or maybe... https://bible.org/seriespage/8-genui...-matthew-61-18
                    This is why argument by weblink isn't allowed. You need to post at least something of your own to give your link some context.

                    But trying to claim that Buttigieg is just being silent about his Christianity is just as bad. We are not supposed to be silent about our Christianity or our allegiance to Christ. And Buttigieg sure wasn't silent when he was denigrating Pence for his faith, was he?


                    I am not aware of ever "mocking" Mr. Pence. I am aware of disagreeing with his positions, and finding some of them immoral or simply injudicious. If you know of a place where I have actually mocked him, please point it out. Disagreeing is not "mocking."
                    OK, then. "disagreeing" with him. My point was that he didn't get any "glory" for stating his Christian views did he?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      Exactly right.

                      Buttigieg has indicated that he identifies as Christian in countless interviews and that his faith has had a strong influence in his life. He is a member of the Episcopal Church and a congregant at the Cathedral of St. James in downtown South Bend. None of this is in serious dispute.

                      But obviously nothing will convince this lot, whatever Buttigieg has to say about his Christianity, because he is a practicing homosexual. This, in the eyes of an Evangelical, rules him out as a REAL Christian.
                      Tass, you're so full of crap. The fact that his is a very vocal 'proud' 'practicing homosexual' is most certainly a factor, along with his (albeit flip/floppy) advocacy for abortion without limits, but that is to be weighed against his own testimony of his devotion to Christ -- that appears to be severely lacking.

                      Why is it so necessary for a hate-filled anti-Christian bigot to declare Buttigieg a "practicing Christian"?
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Except you posted that article in response to my talking about Pence showing that he is a Christian openly:
                        Actually, that's a good point. I had read several posts and my thoughts were about Buttigieg when I posted it. I'm not sure why I linked it to that specific post, and I can see that it certainly would have left the impression it left. My apologies for creating confusion. As I noted, I tend to take people at their word when they talk about their faith, until I have cause to think otherwise.

                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        This is why argument by weblink isn't allowed. You need to post at least something of your own to give your link some context.

                        But trying to claim that Buttigieg is just being silent about his Christianity is just as bad. We are not supposed to be silent about our Christianity or our allegiance to Christ. And Buttigieg sure wasn't silent when he was denigrating Pence for his faith, was he?
                        The comments were about "being a practicing Christian" and why Buttigieg's faith practices were not evident.

                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        OK, then. "disagreeing" with him. My point was that he didn't get any "glory" for stating his Christian views did he?
                        He was lauded by fellow Christians and non-Christians who agree with him, and decried by Christians and non-Christians who disagree with him, as best I can tell. But the point was not about Pence, as I noted above. My comment was about Buttigieg, and generally about anyone with respect to how they practice their faith.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal" - 1 Corinthians 13:1

                          It's the "love" that's conspicuously lacking among you Evangelicals as opposed to Buttigieg's desire to preach an inclusive, socially active gospel.

                          https://religionnews.com/2019/04/18/...spel-movement/
                          Again, you're just full of crap. "Preaching" a perverted gospel based on Liberation Theology does not make one a Christian. The Gospel is about Salvation, and Jesus asked "What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?" REAL love is caring about somebody's eternity, not just their hunger. I preach both. Buttigieg appears to be only interested in "the here and now", and his own brother-in-law seems to think it's all a show for political purposes.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Actually, that's a good point. I had read several posts and my thoughts were about Buttigieg when I posted it. I'm not sure why I linked it to that specific post, and I can see that it certainly would have left the impression it left. My apologies for creating confusion. As I noted, I tend to take people at their word when they talk about their faith, until I have cause to think otherwise.



                            The comments were about "being a practicing Christian" and why Buttigieg's faith practices were not evident.



                            He was lauded by fellow Christians and non-Christians who agree with him, and decried by Christians and non-Christians who disagree with him, as best I can tell. But the point was not about Pence, as I noted above. My comment was about Buttigieg, and generally about anyone with respect to how they practice their faith.
                            Pence didn't go around bragging about his values and actions, he just lived it. The MSM picked up on such things as his rule about women and started mocking him about it. But he wasn't silent about his values either. He openly admits he is a Christian and his life shows it. As does his actions.

                            You can't say the same about Buttigieg. He may be a Christian, I don't know.

                            Our entire debate here is purely about Tassman proclaiming that Buttigieg himself claimed to be a "Practicing Christian" and when we asked him for a source he is unable to provide one, and he keeps changing his story about what his initial claim was.

                            This is about Tassman's propensity to make up stuff and claim it as fact and not being able to back it up.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Pence didn't go around bragging about his values and actions, he just lived it. The MSM picked up on such things as his rule about women and started mocking him about it. But he wasn't silent about his values either. He openly admits he is a Christian and his life shows it. As does his actions.

                              You can't say the same about Buttigieg. He may be a Christian, I don't know.

                              Our entire debate here is purely about Tassman proclaiming that Buttigieg himself claimed to be a "Practicing Christian" and when we asked him for a source he is unable to provide one, and he keeps changing his story about what his initial claim was.

                              This is about Tassman's propensity to make up stuff and claim it as fact and not being able to back it up.
                              This perverted idea that it's not good to publicly identify yourself as a Christian (if you are one) is beyond nutty, and shows a profound ignorance of the Bible. It flies against so much in the New Testament. I'm honestly surprised Carpe suggests such tripe, claiming to have been taught in religious circles.

                              How does one fulfill the great commission (Jesus' last instructions before leaving the planet in the flesh) as a "secret agent" Christian?
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                This perverted idea that it's not good to publicly identify yourself as a Christian (if you are one) is beyond nutty, and shows a profound ignorance of the Bible. It flies against so much in the New Testament. I'm honestly surprised Carpe suggests such tripe, claiming to have been taught in religious circles.

                                How does one fulfill the great commission (Jesus' last instructions before leaving the planet in the flesh) as a "secret agent" Christian?
                                Psst.. have you heard about my Lord, Jesus Christ?

                                Comment

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